God help us thread

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david g ranes

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I don't know about that. Already 15 pages of contributions by lots of different members in about a day and a half, and still going strong. I think the Genie has been let out of the box.
Nothing out of line has been said no fowl mouth other than bung hole comment this stuff is going to affect everyone of us so if this goes in the dumpster it will be right along side of Australia’s guns I hope freedom of speech means more than that as the old saying goes run with the big dogs or stay on the porch I’m not staying on the porch just don’t run very fast any more. David
 

Treeslug

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I don't think banning large magazines is wrong or right.
If you can provide evidence that your competing in a class that require large magazines you should get a permit to do so.
I think the same for assault rifles.
Why not fully automatic rifles as well in private ownership as long your required to have it locked up at your local shooting range and can't have it at home?

Every time I wan't a new gun I need go apply with the police and they will issue a permit and I can go buy. The seller the send in the paperworks and a copy of the permit where the seller filled in the serial works as an temperoarly certificate of ownership before the police send a laminated official one.
If anyone use a gun to conduct crimes the police can figure out trough records who has provided that gun and take the correct actions.

I can make my own rifle, but I need apply for it at my local police station and they will provide me with a serial number I need to engeave into the part.

I think some simple regulations can reduce the number of shootings by a few %, but limitations on magazines and type of veapon can reduce the damage potential of some of those incidents.

What I think has bigger influence is the culture.

You have to be 10years old here to take part in organized training or competitions.

Human like figures are not forbidden, but none of the shooting organizations are using it for neither target practise or competitions.

The frontal lobes are not completly developed with a child and not finish it's development until early 20's. Therfore there is a age limit of 16yo for hunting small game and 18for large game. (You can still hunt large game when 16 if your with an other adult hunter)
I don't think any of this alone can explain US gun violence, but it would be natural to compare to other nations with huge amounts of guns.

I would say there is a lot of guns here, but still gun related crime is almost zero and in general the public has an relaxed relationship towards gun ownership and I think thats mostly because they have an strong feeling that people who own guns are suited to own them.

Probably the biggest danger for gun owners are themselfs. If you fight any change and US continue to have so many deaths related to guns the forces that are against guns could grow stronger until they are the majority and it could also give vegans more political power.
I think it is in both the manufacturers and the owners long term interest to get a draft that enshure you get to keep your rights to own the guns you need to while those worried can feel more safe.
I think you think too much. This is not Norway. Norway was not brought into existence by a citizenry of pioneers that required firearms to build a new empire. I know that Norway has seen its share of killing in wars, but that is not the same history as what it took to build the US of A. Guns are a tradition here, and we have been guaranteed the right to keep and use our firearms for 250 years. Guns are in our DNA, so to speak.

Let me say this and you need to not only hear what I am about to say, but you need to open your mind and allow this to sink in.

Criminals and outlaws do not follow the laws of the land. That is why they are criminals and outlaws. Having eight rounds of ammo in a single magazine will (may) only slow someone intent on killing large groups of people for a few seconds. If that magazine is registered, as well as the weapon being used to kill this group of people, it will not matter because the weapon and magazine will be stolen by a criminal, especially if guns are outlawed. Outlawing guns and gun confiscation and lowering the number of rounds you can squeeze into a magazine WILL NOT eliminate the use of guns by criminals and outlaws in the United States of America. Guns are in our DNA.

Your Norweigan ideas may work well for you in Norway, but they simply will not work in my country. There are more than enough laws on our books to deter any law-abiding person from doing something wrong using a firearm. And those laws work very well and work every day, all day long. Taking away law-abiding people's firearms WILL NOT prevent gun violence in this country. In fact, it will add to gun violence. Smaller magazines and registration will stop NOTHING illegal from happening. Keep your European beliefs for your countries that were founded by slings and arrows and by the mighty sword. Guns are in our DNA.

And if for no other reason, we need to protect our right to keep and bear arms in order to protect us from a government that would take away our God-given and paid for in blood rights. All of our rights.
 
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david g ranes

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409
I think you think too much. This is not Norway. Norway was not brought into existence by a citizenry of pioneers that required firearms to build a new empire. I know that Norway has seen its share of killing in wars, but that is not the same history as what it took to build the US of A. Guns are a tradition here, and we have been guaranteed the right to keep and use our firearms for 250 years. Guns are in our DNA, so to speak.

Let me say this and you need to not only hear what I am about to say, but you need to open your mind and allow this to sink in.

Criminals and outlaws do not follow the laws of the land. That is why they are criminals and outlaws. Having eight rounds of ammo in a single magazine will (may) only slow someone intent on killing large groups of people for a few seconds. If that magazine is registered, as well as the weapon being used to kill this group of people, it will not matter because the weapon and magazine will be stolen by a criminal, especially if guns are outlawed. Outlawing guns and gun confiscation and lowering the number of rounds you can squeeze into a magazine WILL NOT eliminate the use of guns by criminals and outlaws in the United States of America. Guns are in our DNA.

Your Norweigan ideas may work well for you in Norway, but they simply will not work in my country. There are more than enough laws on our books to deter any law-abiding person from doing something wrong using a firearm. And those laws work very well and work every day, all day long. Taking away law-abiding people's firearms WILL NOT prevent gun violence in this country. In fact, it will add to gun violence. Smaller magazines and registration will stop NOTHING illegal from happening. Keep your European belief for your countries that were founded by slings and arrows and by the mighty sword. Guns are in our DNA.

And if for no other reason, we need to protect our right to keep and bear arms in order to protect us from a government that would take away our God-given and paid for in blood rights. All of our rights.
It goes back to how many knifings and how many people that were sight seeing that have been run over by trucks in Europe guns are a product of the person handling it same as any other means to kill someone even if they are sitting at their desk working when the airplane flies through their window David
 

bdlesh

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texas
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it seems like you're talking about the African American population. If that's true you should probably look back at the history of slavery and oppression that drove them into the situation that they're currently in. They are just now slowing starting to dig themselves, as a culture, out of the hole tyay slave owners and oppression put them in.

I'm not saying that it excuses the crime statistics, but I think it shows that it was an outside influence that got them to where they are.
Please explain how the mother country these people come from, that have never set foot here, do the samething? Seems to be in their DNA.
 

Thescandinavian

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154
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Criminals and outlaws do not follow the laws of the land. That is why they are criminals and outlaws. Having eight rounds of ammo in a single magazine will (may) only slow someone intent on killing large groups of people for a few seconds. If that magazine is registered, as well as the weapon being used to kill this group of people, it will not matter because the weapon and magazine will be stolen by a criminal, especially if guns are outlawed. Outlawing guns and gun confiscation and lowering the number of rounds you can squeeze into a magazine WILL NOT eliminate the use of guns by criminals and outlaws in the United States of America. Guns are in our DNA.
And that is where you and me 100% agree.

When your rights was writen 20 round magazines was unheard of. I don't think you should loose your rights, but I think changing the law should include resonable arguments without using left, right, constitution, hitler, stalin, comunist, republican or democrat as part of the vocabulary.

I heard close to 40k people was killed by guns in the US in 2019, but what seams undercomunicated was that lots was people chosing to end there own life and "only" roughly 15000 was homocide.
Don't have any statiatics here about gun related crimes (might be healthy) but the total amount murdered here was 28people(no idea if any of them where shoot) and if we assume all of them was shoot it still is far behind the US if you compare population size (5million vs 330million).
We got 450000 registered gun owners and then shootguns aquired before 1987 are not required to be registered and neither are black powder guns manufactured before 1880 so there are guns we dont know about.

Do I think a DNA analyzes would find a a gene that make americans more violent?
Not really, but I think you have a problem where there are certain parts of the US people that has an unhealthy relationship with veapons and/or how you view human life.
If you don't figure it out those oposing veapons will eventually win.
 

Treeslug

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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it seems like you're talking about the African American population. If that's true you should probably look back at the history of slavery and oppression that drove them into the situation that they're currently in. They are just now slowing starting to dig themselves, as a culture, out of the hole tyay slave owners and oppression put them in.

I'm not saying that it excuses the crime statistics, but I think it shows that it was an outside influence that got them to where they are.
I am going to go out on another limb and say that there is a trainload of white-trash nasty folks that I would not sit down next to and eat dinner. I'll go a little farther and say that there are all types of races that have an overpopulation of bad (criminal) creeps within their ranks. It would be racist to state that this is a problem confined to the African race. However, when less than 20 percent of a population is accountable for over 80 percent of the crime in a given population, there is reason to take notice.

To allow the African people the excuse of slavery for the utterly off the charts involvement in crime is a cop-out and a built-in reason for their people to continue on with these criminalistic ways. The African people themselves have as much to do with the slave trade as anyone else. What race of mankind went into the jungles of Africa and captured and sold their own people to other people, including middle easterners. And let's not forget that Africans were not enslaved only in America. Americans are just such good people that we continue to coddle people of African heritage, giving them things in life that they COULD work for and earn themselves, like everyone else with a history of prejudice against them that ever came to this country. The Civil Rights Act of the 1960s has done more harm to the African people than slavery. At least with slavery came a chance to live in the greatest nation ever created. Let's not forget the people of Mexico, Central America, and other gang infested populations that have come to this country. They were never enslaved in America, yet they, too, have a greater propensity toward crime and violent crime than their numbers should account for.
 

Treeslug

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Messages
355
Location
New Braunfels, Texas
And that is where you and me 100% agree.

When your rights was writen 20 round magazines was unheard of. I don't think you should loose your rights, but I think changing the law should include resonable arguments without using left, right, constitution, hitler, stalin, comunist, republican or democrat as part of the vocabulary.

I heard close to 40k people was killed by guns in the US in 2019, but what seams undercomunicated was that lots was people chosing to end there own life and "only" roughly 15000 was homocide.
Don't have any statiatics here about gun related crimes (might be healthy) but the total amount murdered here was 28people(no idea if any of them where shoot) and if we assume all of them was shoot it still is far behind the US if you compare population size (5million vs 330million).
We got 450000 registered gun owners and then shootguns aquired before 1987 are not required to be registered and neither are black powder guns manufactured before 1880 so there are guns we dont know about.

Do I think a DNA analyzes would find a a gene that make americans more violent?
Not really, but I think you have a problem where there are certain parts of the US people that has an unhealthy relationship with veapons and/or how you view human life.
If you don't figure it out those oposing veapons will eventually win.
Whether I figure it out or not, those opposing weapons will probably eventually win to some major degree.

Yes, we definitely do have a problem with people with unhealthy relationships with weapons and how they view human life--but that is not the population of legal gun owners who use their weapons responsibly. And no, in this country you will never be able to remove enough guns from the streets to prevent violent crimes from happening.

Statistics are meaningless in the way they are reported on the subject of gun violence. You are thinking again (about Norway) and not listening (about America) and the magnanimous differences in the way our two countries developed. 5 million vs 330 million. There is no comparison of statistics for two countries with such vastly different numbers of people and guns, not to mention the criminal mindset of so many people in this country who believe they are owed everything because of perceived past injustices. Our countries and our histories are too far apart for statistical comparison. How many people walk the streets of your country blaming you (just for the color of your skin) for every bad thing that has EVER happened to them?

If you take all the black on black, drug, and gang murders out of those skewed statistics, you would have a much clearer picture of American gun violence. And American gun violence does not deserve the taking away of my rights. Any of my rights. America's gun violence just isn't that bad.
 

Treeslug

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New Braunfels, Texas
And that is where you and me 100% agree.

When your rights was writen 20 round magazines was unheard of. I don't think you should loose your rights, but I think changing the law should include resonable arguments without using left, right, constitution, hitler, stalin, comunist, republican or democrat as part of the vocabulary.

I heard close to 40k people was killed by guns in the US in 2019, but what seams undercomunicated was that lots was people chosing to end there own life and "only" roughly 15000 was homocide.
Don't have any statiatics here about gun related crimes (might be healthy) but the total amount murdered here was 28people(no idea if any of them where shoot) and if we assume all of them was shoot it still is far behind the US if you compare population size (5million vs 330million).
We got 450000 registered gun owners and then shootguns aquired before 1987 are not required to be registered and neither are black powder guns manufactured before 1880 so there are guns we dont know about.

Do I think a DNA analyzes would find a a gene that make americans more violent?
Not really, but I think you have a problem where there are certain parts of the US people that has an unhealthy relationship with veapons and/or how you view human life.
If you don't figure it out those oposing veapons will eventually win.
I am sorry, Thescandinavian, I completely forgot to address the part of your comment about 20 round magazines being unheard of when my rights were written. When those rights were written for me and my fellow countrymen, none of us alive today were known about, just as drug wars, gangs, and small groups of anti-American zealots were not thought to have threatened the will enshrined in our founding documents. Neither were disposable diapers or vehicles that would kill more people every year than guns, but progress was not ruled out or limited. That is why we were given the ability to make necessary changes to our governing laws. The problem with the gun law changes proposed today is that they are unnecessary, overbroad, obtained by false documentation, and wholly unwanted by the MAJORITY of the citizens of this country. That fact will soon become apparent. Hide and watch!
 

Thescandinavian

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154
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Norway
The problem with the gun law changes proposed today is that they are unnecessary, overbroad, obtained by false documentation, and wholly unwanted by the MAJORITY of the citizens of this country.
So dont you then think it would be more productive to sitt down and actually make a gun law that is necesarry?
I truly don't think your more violent in your DNA than other humans.
So where do all the guns killing people come from? I am guessing lots of them had there orgin as legaly obtained veapons?
How many more scoolshootings before people had enough and the oposition will get the fuel they need to turn things there way and without your input?

We almost had semi-autos baned here after the terror attack, but it would mean that people with injury that made operating a bolt hard would not be able to hunt and a few classes in competition shooting would be wiped out.
So because political influence from the organizations it was changed into semi-autos with large damage potential.
Was a compromise that everyone could both understand and live with.

The worst thing that can happen is that you end up with a law no one is really happy with.
 

Treeslug

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Messages
355
Location
New Braunfels, Texas
So dont you then think it would be more productive to sitt down and actually make a gun law that is necesarry?
I truly don't think your more violent in your DNA than other humans.
So where do all the guns killing people come from? I am guessing lots of them had there orgin as legaly obtained veapons?
How many more scoolshootings before people had enough and the oposition will get the fuel they need to turn things there way and without your input?

We almost had semi-autos baned here after the terror attack, but it would mean that people with injury that made operating a bolt hard would not be able to hunt and a few classes in competition shooting would be wiped out.
So because political influence from the organizations it was changed into semi-autos with large damage potential.
Was a compromise that everyone could both understand and live with.

The worst thing that can happen is that you end up with a law no one is really happy with.
I try not to think. Thinking gives me a headache. Gun laws will be no more effective on gun violence than laws against rape, robbery, and murder have proven to be. Since you like to think, ask yourself why we have so many more persons in prison per-capita than Norway. You like to think, but you seem heard of hearing my point of view. So no, I do not think it would be good to sit down and create any more useless laws--and no, the gun haters will never compromise on any law that allows citizens to legally own guns.

You would be wrong to think that the people of this country could EVER sit down and compromise on a good gun law that everyone understands because, there are no good gun laws, and EVERYONE will never compromise or understand that.

As to DNA; if you train a bird dog to hunt birds, it will hunt birds (Norweigan). If you train a rottweiler to hunt humans, it will hunt humans (Americans). You are reading, but you are not understanding the differences between your countrymen and my countrymen.

The reason I know all this to be true is because none of this is actually about gun or violence control. This is ALL about total control over our population and nothing else. If you really were trying to make this a nation safer from gun violence, you would start with the mentally incompetent. And no, that does NOT mean enacting "RED FLAG" laws. Look at what our democratic governors have done with a small bit of power using the Chinese Virus as an excuse to take away our rights. There are far too many power mongers to ever enact Red Flag laws. We have too many laws that could be used but are not used already. We need to be left alone.
 

Hugnot

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Joined
Sep 26, 2020
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233
Location
Montana
And that is where you and me 100% agree.

When your rights was writen 20 round magazines was unheard of. I don't think you should loose your rights, but I think changing the law should include resonable arguments without using left, right, constitution, hitler, stalin, comunist, republican or democrat as part of the vocabulary.

I heard close to 40k people was killed by guns in the US in 2019, but what seams undercomunicated was that lots was people chosing to end there own life and "only" roughly 15000 was homocide.
Don't have any statiatics here about gun related crimes (might be healthy) but the total amount murdered here was 28people(no idea if any of them where shoot) and if we assume all of them was shoot it still is far behind the US if you compare population size (5million vs 330million).
We got 450000 registered gun owners and then shootguns aquired before 1987 are not required to be registered and neither are black powder guns manufactured before 1880 so there are guns we dont know about.

Do I think a DNA analyzes would find a a gene that make americans more violent?
Not really, but I think you have a problem where there are certain parts of the US people that has an unhealthy relationship with veapons and/or how you view human life.
If you don't figure it out those oposing veapons will eventually win.
Hi there Mr. Thescandinavian. I hope you are getting thru the annual period of darkness in your northern world of seasonal dark latitudes and don't have problems with seasonal affective disorder (SAD).

As you probably know, our great nation was founded by a bunch of ordinary people inspired and led by God blessed leaders who took on an oppressive monarchy determined to suck the life blood out of our country as a one of their subordinate colonies.

Some time ago I visited your peaceful and gentle country and observed a population of respectful law abiding residents. I also heard of the active Norwegian resistance to the evil Nazi occupation of your country during WWII - like using fully automatic weapons, explosives, and non-judicial executions. The skill and bravery of these exploits were extraordinary. The techniques used for this necessary task were similar to those of our American organized crime gangs but instead were used to preserve the God given rights of a population tormented and exploited by Nazi thugs. Please realize that I do not respect or support organized crime and observe our judicial efforts to control these illegal and evil activities.

I believe the ultimate strength of the United States of America country rests in the control of government by ordinary citizens. The foundation of this, is our Constitution that acts as a framework to regulate a patchwork of laws that constantly are being formed by the many units of government within our huge and varied country. This makes Constitutional compliance an absolute requirement for any law. The evil shown by Stalin, Hitler, or similar dictators is an affront to the God given or inalienable rights given to us by our Creator not by any government. Democrat or Republican - these are only political organizations.

When the American Constitution evolved the common weapon was a flint lock long gun, either smooth bore musket or rifle. Now the common weapon is our popular AR15. Millions upon millions of these weapons reside in homes across our country. The flint lock has evolved into the AR15. A 20 round magazine is only an extension of that weapon's capabilities.

Sadly, homicides and suicides exist in our and other societies. I have observed gun and other violence in a large city in defiance of many gun control laws and regulations. Violations of existing laws include use of fully automatic weapons and explosives. We have law enforcement agencies that combat these illegal activities and penalties are severe. Trafficking illegal weapons occurs including foreign made weapons. A firearm is only a simple tool to be controlled by the user whether it be in defense of a God given right to keep on living or commission of some terrible evil or tragic act.

Attached is a photo of the church in Vaeroy where my father in law was baptized as a young child. He emigrated to the USA as a young man to seek a better life. He ran a fishery business in Seattle and other family lived on a farm in Montana where they owned many firearms like Winchesters used to shoot deers and rabbits. My family emigrated to the USA from France where in the USA they owned many firearms like WWII surplus M98 Mausers and M1 Garand's because they liked guns and our government allowed possession.

norway 125.JPG

William or Bill, was a fisherman who probably prayed to God on a daily basis to protect him when he rowed out to long line for cod fishes. I think the prayer might go like "God please protect me as my boat is so tiny and the sea is so large"
 
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