First or second focal plane?

[lancetkenyon]

When you can't see the reticle on low power and you turn up your scope the reticle DOES cover more of the target.

Wrong. The reticle grows at the same rate as the target.

 

[FIGJAM]

FFP scopes rock for hunting. Love them. Will never go back to SFP.

SFP scopes suck for hunting. Who want a duplex? Or a reticle that the subtensions are only accurate at one magnification? Or have to figure out exactly where half magnification is and double values?

Not every FFP scope has a "Christmas Tree" reticle. SKMR, H2CMR, EBR-1A, SCA, MSR, etc.

Are they for everyone? No. For hunting under 300 yards, I would suggest a SFP scope. And something like a 1-8, 2-10, 3-9.

Not all SFP scopes are duplex are they? In fact some companies like Weaver make a FFP duplex - what the hell for? Lol. I use my lowly SFP scopes for hunting out to 1000 yards and shoot stuff at the range well beyond that. I don't see why a SFP should be limited to under 300 yards? FFP scopes are for the wannabe tactical sniper dudes who play the PRS game and carry that over into their hunting. To each their own. I think everybody should scratch the FFP itch to see if its for them. I did twice and hated it both times - If I ever decide I want to pretend to be a sniper and run around the PRS circut, I will definitely be running a FFP MIL/MIL scope. Until then I will take a SFP moa scope.

 

[FIGJAM]

So when you use your sub tensions for adjustments are you spotting your shot and adjusting from there?
If I understand correctly any scope with a christmas tree style reticle would work as long as you don't adjust the magnification of the scope correct?
Or are you figuring what the value of the sub tension is? If I understand this correctly [said target is 875 yards so an each MOA hash on your reticle is valued at 8 3/4" ]
So at 875 if you wanted to hit 20" in any one direction you would have to hold 2.25MOA?
I can understand this working great in a target shooting situation when you know your target for example is 24" wide, but don't see a great advantage in a hunting situation.Because I am not great at knowing what 12" 14" 16" 18" is at 874 yards.
I am a huge believer in."Hunt with what you practice with."
I know either style works great if you practice either way.

Bingo - outside of PRS they provide little value in a hunting situation, especially big game. Maybe if you are lighting up a prairie dog town at long range and want to spot your shots and make adjustments?

 

[Toddxusmc]

Every optic I have is SFP. I have seriously looked into FFP optics but the problem I run into is when I get to the lower 35% of the power range the reticle becomes basically a dot. This may be due to the fact that I am so used to seeing a full reticle or it could be I am in the transition area of my bi focal corrective eyeglasses. I think the above replies do cover most of the pros and cons. I think the FFP while useful in some situations is just something "new and improved" the optics companies offer to generate sales. After all if you have a great Leupold or Vortex(or other great brand) SFP optic on your rifle now, you wouldn't buy a new optic to replace it unless it offers something new or different.

 

[FIGJAM]

There's just a few reasons to use the reticle these days. Confirmation of distance if you think the rangefinder is erroneous, if for whatever reason a laser will give away your position to an enemy at night for those that that applies to, and lastly if your batteries or unit dies and it's a last resort. Then the old dope book comes out with the page of "common target measurements" for reference.

Most of which don't apply to competition or even hunting really. If my batteries die hunting, I'll kick myself for not checking my gear prior by walking five miles back to the truck and head to the general store for batteries and grab a Mountain Dew while I'm at it. I'm not going to mil out a 4 inch mule deer ear or assume the deer is a 38 inches tall average or whatever it is.

You are exactly right, well said - outside of PRS or on the battlefields, there is no real benefit. They are meant to provide the ability to range a target at any magnification. In fact, lets be honest, if your not an ex military sniper do you even carry a dope book with common target measurements? Unlikely.

 

[raider1v1]

For me FFP is just a wreck for hunting, I hunt from moving through timber to breaking out into large open areas, in the timber with the optic on lowest point I just have a fine cross hair with no reference points visible and need illumination so it stands out on dark game in timber, once I'm in the open I find them Ok in the mid up power ranges where I can see and use the reticle but it's still fine enough it doesn't look like it's the size of a fence post. I loathe FFP optics at long range at the top magnification, for me FFP just was no fit for my hunting!

thats why i use illuminated FFP's! its great at low and high power.

 

[FIGJAM]

thats why i use illuminated FFP's! its great at low and high power.

my lack of illumination in round 1 was how I rationalized diving into round 2. The illumination was better, but when you light up an entire christmas tree reticle at low power I might as well be using a 10moa red dot sight - it was crazy.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

I've used sfp scopes my entire life, recently I've realized the disadvantage of trying to accurately spot misses and hold for wind at varing ranges.
On my hunting rifles when the power is cranked up to 16x or more it is almost impossible to spot my hits under 1000 yards due to decreased fov.
And as we know Max power is where most sfp reticles are calibrated.

Also I feel that sfp reticles actually cover more of the target when zoomed in, this has bothered me for a while and is one if the reasons I decided to try ffp.

I can't speak for every reticle but my mk5 with the pr-1 moa reticle is awesome for ELR.
It has a small dot in the middle that allows for the most precice aiming point on full power that I've ever used.

I will agree that there is an adjustment going from a sfp to ffp reticle in lowpower low light conditions.
I did a bunch of testing with my mk5, vx5hd, and Zeiss v6 in low light on dark targets.
I honestly found that after getting used to the ffp reticle, there was very little if any advantage to the SFP reticles in legal shooting conditions.

 

[NEMTHunter]

Nightforce reticle for SFP scopes. Center line is .0625 MOA that puts you at about 1.047 inches @ 1675 yards @ 25X. Now at 12.5 power its 1.047 @ 837. Now at 6.25 power its 1.047 @ 418 yards. AND you can still see the reticle in dark timber. Excellent ELR shooting AND low power shooting for hunting. With the SFP you can have your cake and icing AND get to eat it.. LOL. Look into the ELR world and 1000 yard bench rest world. What scope do they use? Most times its SFP. Better precision at long range. Hands down. F-class shooters use SFP for a reason. A good F-class reticle will only be .6 to .65 MOA @ 1000 yards. And with good glass you can center the reticle on a 1 MOA dot and pull the trigger.

With that said FFP has its place. But its not on my guns. If you use it and like it great!! You have what works for you. But I am willing to say this. IF you did ELR shooting or F class shooting you are leaving a LOT on the table by not using a SFP scope.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

Here's the PR-1moa reticle from the MK5 in case anyone cares..
Id like to meet the guy who shoots so precisely that .2 moa target coverage is screwing him up at 1500 yards.

 

[NEMTHunter]

Here's the PR-1moa reticle from the MK5 in case anyone cares..
Id like to meet the guy who shoots so precisely that .2 moa target coverage is screwing him up at 1500 yards.

FFP has come a long ways. Very nice. Now turn the power down for close range shooting and what do you have.

On EDIT: That .2 MOA is 100 Yards. Sp At 1500 its covering about 3.1 inches of the target. And At 1700 its about 3.5 inches.. Thats not bad at all. Still over three times more coverage then the Nightforce SFP reticle.

Both would do the job though. On low power that FFP got to be SMALL....

 

[gusd]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Because I'm trying to learn this. If you have a SFP scope set at any of it's variable power with a chrismas tree style reticle. You shoot and spot your miss you then can use the reticle to adjust your aim point. The exact value of the sub tensions really have no meaning. This type of situation only applies to the quick follow-up shot at a target when you are not dialing.

 

[Rich Coyle]

gusd,
You are correct. Americans were doing this decades before FFP scopes were known about by the vast majority of shooters.

 

[gusd]

That's what I thought and if you are not using the reticle to range. I just don't see FFP as a great advantage.