Fierce CT Rival 280ai

[jgriffin82]

Good morning everybody. Longtime lurker here, first time poster. I'm hoping someone is willing to offer advice on an issue a buddy of mine is having. He recently took possession of his Fierce CT Rival in 280ai. Unfortunately, Fierce wasn't able to do load development on the rifle due to staffing issues. Anyhow, we worked up a seating depth ladder starting .020 off and .003 after that for 11 different seating depths. We haven't been able to find a node. There are a couple loads that shot about 1 moa @ 100 yards. The load is new nosler brass, federal 215m, 58 grains of 4831 and 143 grain hammer hunters. Should we focus on the two groups that shot well and increase powder charge 1/2 grain until we get a good group or see pressure signs? Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Jim

 

[sedancowboy]

I would do seating depth testing at .025 increments not .003. You will only waste components at that small of a difference. Once you find your best seating depth then you could go up and down by .005 and see if it made a difference. But a new rifle will need some breaking in to settle down.

 

[Teekerguy]

Lots of different ways to do load development and lots of different results can be had a lot comes into play. Rest setup, does the gun have a muzzle brake for less recoil, neck tension, button die vs bushing die, scale quality a guy could go on forever about this but from my experience the .003 jumps only really worked once I got my posture right and recoil managed that said. I stoped this method with my hunting rigs and only my bench guns. But work best for me with hammers in my hunting rigs and buddy's was the Berger method. Example…..3 shot or 5 shot groups 20 thou 50 thou 80 thou 110 tho and 140 tho off. Find the one that groups the best and run it. You can fine tune it from there if you'd like with smaller jumps But every gun and shooter is different and the method I posted is the simple version of the beget method just do to the cost of copper

 

[PA Plumber]

New 280 AI this past winter. Took 200 rounds for the gun to settle down.
1st hundred or so I could only get 1 1/4" 100 yard groups. Next 100 got better.
Round count is around 350 or so now, and the best 300 yard 4 shot group is 1 5/16". Have had quite a few sub 1 3/4".
Some guns may break in quicker, but this one took some time.

 

[adam32+P]

Don't worry about seating depth tests with Hammers.

Load them down to the first drive band, crimp them with a Lee crimp die and go kill stuff.

And run em fast.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I am taking it as first time out with that rifle, and starting from zero. It's looks like you are just changing your seating depth on the bullets hopping the will get the job done. Nothing on case prep, primers, powder. Primers other than Mag primers. You don't really need M primer either. There isn't enough powder in there unless it's a short barrel. I am taking it as a new rifle, to start with. You need too brake in a new rifle barrel to start with. See what the people say about barrel brake-in. Case prep is: Check case length, flash hole clean, Primer pocket depth. Fireforming the cases is needed. First fired case, I reduce the powder load, and pushing the bullet into lands to be sure that the case base is back against the bolt face Need to watch how you velocity is changing as the barrel brakes in. Once you have figure out what powder, primers and powder loads work best, Then look at seating the bullet to different lengths. Just changing seating depth is wishful thinking to get the rifle to group. There more to it, but that a start.
There a lot more in case prep that I haven't spoke about either.
Here what I do to start with. Check case length and cut all to the same length, clean flash wholes, check primer pocket to be uniform, I cut all my necks for thickness,, check for volume weight, anneal, size, and set neck tension. That's on new cases out of the box. Then fire form them, and looking at growth, I generally use 2nd in bullet if possible to do most of that work.
Probable best to do some reading on steps to reload and other than just go to a reloading manual and pick a load. Case set up is your friend! How too and do it, is the work, but a lot of it once done doesn't need to repeated.
Is the action bedded? Is the barrel float. I got some of it cover, and I am sure I have left thing out.

 

[Dmagna]

Never heard of a seating depth ladder test, but I havnt been doing this very long. I would find a powder charge shooting over a chrono. I shoot 140 class bullets out of my 280ai at 3250 with H4831sc, but it's a 26 inch barrel.

 

[BEEMAN]

My load work up in my 280 AI consisted of load to first drive band, 1/4 crimp, found pressure, backed off 1 grain, Done. 140 AH with H100V, Fed 210, 23" IBI carbon at 1-7.5" twist. Gets me over 3300 FPS. My 6.5x47 Was similar with the 124 HH. Eight shots and my load was finished. Maybe I got lucky. I also referenced the hammer and absolute load data sheets. Lots of good info there. Best of luck and I'm sure you'll get it dialed in.

 

[jgriffin82]

Thanks for the response's, guys. There's a lot of knowledge (and opinions) on this site. I appreciate both. With what I've read, it sounds like we should start with a powder charge ladder test, checking for pressure along the way. I developed loads for 3 of my rifles starting with seating depth. Looks I am a living example of bassackwards! We'll go back to the drawing board. On the bright side, he now has a bunch of fire formed brass. I do the standard case prep such as de-prime, clean primer pockets, tumble cases (as needed), lube cases, full length size, trim, chamfer and then a final cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner to get rid of the lube residue. I'm sure there are many different ways to prep cases but, this is how I do it. I'm open to suggestions!

I've never crimped or annealed but, i'm curious about both. I imagine that both processes will lower my SD/ES?

Jim

 

[mdmiller]

Welcome from Illinois!
You will find what you need here!!

 

[john k]

Good morning everybody. Longtime lurker here, first time poster. I'm hoping someone is willing to offer advice on an issue a buddy of mine is having. He recently took possession of his Fierce CT Rival in 280ai. Unfortunately, Fierce wasn't able to do load development on the rifle due to staffing issues. Anyhow, we worked up a seating depth ladder starting .020 off and .003 after that for 11 different seating depths. We haven't been able to find a node. There are a couple loads that shot about 1 moa @ 100 yards. The load is new nosler brass, federal 215m, 58 grains of 4831 and 143 grain hammer hunters. Should we focus on the two groups that shot well and increase powder charge 1/2 grain until we get a good group or see pressure signs? Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Jim

I shoot 143 HH's in my .280AI with RL26 with excellent accuracy, speed, and consistency. Steve from Hammer helped me along with fellow .280AI Hammer shooters on forum. Seating depth should not be an issue for the most part. RL23 also is a great powder for your load. Are you using IMR4831 or H4831sc? It took my rifle over 100 rounds to shoot.

 

[bomberodevil]

I have a Savage Ultralight, Proof Carbon barrel, chambered in 280 AI, with about 200 rounds fired. I shoot more conventional weighted projectiles in the 160-168 grain range, cup and core Nosler and Hornady (leaning towards the Hammers for mono, but not yet).

I shoot for accuracy over velocity, and I usually won't follow diminishing returns of shooting hundreds of loads chasing thousands of inches. I have several hunting loads under .500 moa, but my best is Hornady 162 grain SST, 58.7 grains of H4831, Nosler brass, Federal 210, .030" off the lands, ES of 20, SD of 6.3, .316 moa, 2845fps. I'd like a bit more speed, but I've got 30 caliber rifles if I need more mass plus velocity.

There's been some interesting articles written about seating depth before powder charge, but I usually go the other way. I start my hunting bullet load development at about .030" off, and if I'm under .400 moa like this load, I'm usually good.

 

[Teekerguy]

Thanks for the response's, guys. There's a lot of knowledge (and opinions) on this site. I appreciate both. With what I've read, it sounds like we should start with a powder charge ladder test, checking for pressure along the way. I developed loads for 3 of my rifles starting with seating depth. Looks I am a living example of bassackwards! We'll go back to the drawing board. On the bright side, he now has a bunch of fire formed brass. I do the standard case prep such as de-prime, clean primer pockets, tumble cases (as needed), lube cases, full length size, trim, chamfer and then a final cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner to get rid of the lube residue. I'm sure there are many different ways to prep cases but, this is how I do it. I'm open to suggestions!

I've never crimped or annealed but, i'm curious about both. I imagine that both processes will lower my SD/ES?

Jim

Annealing is huge. Consistency is everything in reloading it's all in how far you want to take it. Crimping is another step added to the process and I personally don't think it's necessary. With my experience with hammer 143s I had a 10 shot string I don't remember the SD but ES was 14 and for a hunting rig that's money but I know there are guys who swear by crimping but annealing is definitely something to looking into especially for brass life

 

[JuddL]

Thanks for the response's, guys. There's a lot of knowledge (and opinions) on this site. I appreciate both. With what I've read, it sounds like we should start with a powder charge ladder test, checking for pressure along the way. I developed loads for 3 of my rifles starting with seating depth. Looks I am a living example of bassackwards! We'll go back to the drawing board. On the bright side, he now has a bunch of fire formed brass. I do the standard case prep such as de-prime, clean primer pockets, tumble cases (as needed), lube cases, full length size, trim, chamfer and then a final cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner to get rid of the lube residue. I'm sure there are many different ways to prep cases but, this is how I do it. I'm open to suggestions!

I've never crimped or annealed but, i'm curious about both. I imagine that both processes will lower my SD/ES?

Jim

You can do it that way…old benchrest method. Seating depth first, then powder and finish up tuning neck tension and primers.

I'm very speed driven…typically the driving factor in my bullet selection. So I do a powder ladder test first…smaller cases .3 increments and bigger .5. I've switched powder after a ladder just because it wouldn't carry the speed, before hitting pressure, I wanted.

Good luck, as you can tell…many ways to skin this cat.