Enough scope power??

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by jb1000br, Sep 25, 2003.

  1. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    I'm looking at a scope for my 308 that will allow me to still center the 1000yard targets we use and allow me to poke a deer out to 800yds and maybe 1k prarie dogs. I like the price of the sightron SIII , but i really want the new leup 4.5-14 M1 with side focus(its just too damn much). The sightron is about half the price. im just concerned that 10x is not enough magnification to smack a groundhog or PD at 1k.

    let me know what you guys think

    o yea--i want it to be a mil dot.

    JB
     
  2. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

    Messages:
    4,811
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    with a 308 at 1k, you are talking about 37-40 moa up. Look at 20 moa tapered base to your rig to bring it back center and allow you to reach 1k. With that tapered base you can go into the 6-20x variable line of scopes also.

    BH
     
  3. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

    Messages:
    4,811
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    [ 09-25-2003: Message edited by: BountyHunter ]
     
  4. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    BH--i already have a 20 MOA Farrell and a 6-18VXII on zee rings. I was just looking for a more "tactical" scope for the rig. (30mm w/ side focus) i was just unsure of the power i would need for the prescribed duties because i dont have a 10x mil dot to look through.

    JB
     
  5. jcpython357

    jcpython357 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    323
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Jason, I'd get a Burris 6-24x Black Diamond with Ballistic Mil-dot, or the Signature with same reticle, my boy's got the Sig. on his 22-250, excellent scopes that won't break the bank, and I wish I had some stock in Burris, what's the symbol? [​IMG] [​IMG] Jay
     
  6. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Jay--i want side focus. A BD with side focus is over 600 i believe.

    JB
     
  7. jcpython357

    jcpython357 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    323
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    jason, How much do you want to spend? Jay
     
  8. jcpython357

    jcpython357 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    323
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Jason, Your really limited it seems, if you want to shoot out that far, I mean I'd think you'd need at least 20x for the 1K PD, and I don't know how the Sightron's are for clarity and such, yes, the BD is 664 at Midway, 1 left, but damn, if they're as good as my boy's Sig. and the 6-24 Sig on my 223, you've got a damn nice scope there, ah, work a little overtime, if you can, before you know it you'll have the money, Sakofan always gives me crap about touting my beloved Burris scopes, can't help it, they work for me, and very well, Thank you, Later, Jay
     
  9. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    I just bought an 02 dakota so funds will be limited for awhile--so i'll prob stick with the 6-18 till i can afford the leupy or get a sightron, should they come out with a 14X side focus. I like the burris, but for 50$ more i could have the more compact leupy that i really want.

    thanks for the info though.

    JB
     
  10. Nate Haler

    Nate Haler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    189
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Jason, did you get the A3 yet? Should be just about the end of the day for UPS drivers out there, so I'll look forward to hearing from you... [​IMG]

    Re: your scope dilemma, I respectfully suggest you consider how much internal elevation you will need, factoring in your caliber's ballistics, and whatever ring/base setup you will be using.

    The Burris BD w/side focus have varying amounts of 'up', depending on which model you get. I know their 8-32, for example, has a mere 39 MOA, so you'd still be challenged to get to 1,000y with a .308 even with a 20 MOA base, because chances are your 100y zero will be something above half of the scope's adjustment range.

    FYI, dealer cost on the Leupold LR 4.5-14 w/duplex reticle (Leupold #54660) is $648.60. Their mil-dot version, #54560, has a dealer cost of $719.10.

    My preference is the 6.5-20 LR for an application such as yours, because the extra mag can be quite handy for PDs and the like. Duplex version, #52078, is $641.08 (yes, a few bucks less than the 4.5-14, probably because that one is part of their 'Tactical' product line). The 6.5-20 LR in mil-dot, #52199, is $711.58.

    All prices above per Jerry's Sport Center, a wholesale distributor w/several distribution centers (including a couple in PA). Know anybody with an FFL? Have them order one for you from JSC.

    Leupold cites 75 MOA for the 4.5-14 LR, and 72 MOA for the 6.5-20 LR. Either weighs 20 ounces, a pound less than a Nightforce!

    On the barely used market, you can occasionally find both models near or below dealer cost, it's just a matter of shopping the boards and waiting...

    On your .308, the 6.5-20 LR would still be best coupled with a tapered base or Burris Signature rings (which you already have and like), to ensure that you don't run out of up before getting to 1,000y.

    One last thought, because it works for me (although I have not shot PDs) is the Sightron SII4-16x42 w/mil-dot reticle. One inch tube, A/O, target knobs, sunshade. This scope is on a rifle I use in competition to 1,000y. It has 56 MOA, and on my flat-base setup with regular rings, I run out of up just past 800y. Thereafter, I use the mil-dots for holdover. The mil-dots equate to standard spacing at just below 16x on my scope's dial. Bear Basin sells 'em for about $379.00, but I've seen new/like new versions on the board go for $300 or a bit less.

    Might be just the ticket until you decide to pony up the big cash for a 30mm tube scope.

    Good luck, whatever you decide.

    [ 09-26-2003: Message edited by: Nate Haler ]
     
  11. jcpython357

    jcpython357 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    323
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Nate, With a Mil-dot reticle on the Burris scopes you don't need alot of elevation adjustments, due to the fact you can zero the rifle at 400yds on the center crosshair, and then the subsequent hash marks will be 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, and 1000 being the intersection of the thick and thin part of the verticle reticle, really easy, I'd think, anyway, that's what Larry at Burris told me I could do with the ballistic mil-dot, Jay
     
  12. Nate Haler

    Nate Haler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    189
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Right you are Jay, with that reticle (or any reticle that offers multiple aiming points that you can interpret as to MOA affect), you don't have to rely on the scope's internal adjustments to get you to longer range.

    And if your caliber trajectory matches the curve that the Burris 'ballistic mil-dot' is based on (which is not the same as standard mil-dot spacing), then you should have a pretty simple task to holdover accordingly.

    [ 09-27-2003: Message edited by: Nate Haler ]
     
  13. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    i guess i was a little off on the price of the sightron SIII--must have been looking at the wrong thing...oops.

    the new 4.5-14 is about 2" shorter than the LR scopes--i have a 8.5-25LRT on my bench gun and i wouldnt want anything that size on my 308. looks like i'll wait till i can afford the new tactical leupold #54560 i think

    JB