Discussion about bullets, tumbling and expanding

[coldboremiracle]

Hey guys, hope this is a good place for this. I've had some recent experiences that got me thinking about this subject. Curious about what your experiences have shown compared to my own. I'd love to hear your thoughts about it, without of course degenerating into zealotry.

Bullet Penetration and Tumbling

A discussion on what happens when bullets hit living targets

coldboremiracle.com

 

[memtb]

My take on this is…..use a bullet that has a very low likelihood of failure from "point blank" range to their maximum range for proper expansion!

I also believe that, even with improvements in bullet technology" we have far too many shooters that choose to shoot calibers/cartridges that are minimal under optimal conditions …..and wear it as "a badge of honor" to be shooting the smallest of calibers, relying to "their" perfect bullet placement to kill the animal!

Yes…..I'm very opinionated, and I do not apologize! memtb

 

[Varmint Hunter]

My take on this is…..use a bullet that has a very low likelihood of failure from "point blank" range to their maximum range for proper expansion!

I also believe that, even with improvements in bullet technology" we have far too many shooters that choose to shoot calibers/cartridges that are minimal under optimal conditions …..and wear it as "a badge of honor" to be shooting the smallest of calibers, relying to "their" perfect bullet placement to kill the animal!

Yes…..I'm very opinionated, and I do not apologize! memtb

I kind of agree with your assessment. I tend to go the other way and select a cartridge that is on the heavier end of needed ballistic performance.

 

[willfrye027]

Good write up! I think we are wayyy too concerned with how a bullet looks when recovered, rather than taking the time to dissect the animal and see what the tissue looks like. We've been fed a steady stream of marketing showing perfect mushrooms and that has somehow become a benchmark for bullet performance.

My anecdote with tumbling was using a .257, 110gr badlands precision SBDII. Shot from a 1:7 twist 25-06 at 3200ish fps on a roughly 120 pound pig.

First shot was back through liver/stomach and slowed it down. Second shot was in the shoulder and anchored the animal.

Necropsy showed a pretty small but larger than caliber hole through the animal from the liver/stomach shot. Essentially what was expected. The shoulder shot was interesting and showed a wide swath of destruction, angling up from the shoulder blade and smashing through the spine. Soft ball sized exit, and an elongated hole through the scapula. It would be impossible to know for sure, but I believe the second bullet tumbled. The terminal damage was impressive. I had a very similar outcome on a blacktail buck at 500 yards with the same bullet/rifle. In 25 creedmoor, I was suspicious that my Berger 135 LRHT may have tumbled through a mule deer at 525 yards when it took out the scapula but seemingly changed directions and ended up in the lower neck/spine; definitely wasn't the angle he was standing at.

I think we are more likely to see tumbling with very long bullets that may be stable in air but marginally stable in tissue, especially when something hard like bone is encountered.

Tumbling does not bother me one bit and creates some massive wound channels.

 

[Ckleeves]

Willfrye027 is spot on about worrying about what a recovered bullet looks like. It's been constantly shoved down our throats that for some bizarre reason a good looking mushroom has everything to do with killing an animal which couldn't be further from the truth.

I think guys are catching on these days that wound channels matter a whole lot more to quick killing then what a piece of lead or copper in a specific shape and size has to do with killing.

 

[wvbearhunter]

This is why I like a heavily fragmenting projectile. As much damage as possible as quickly as possible

 

[FEENIX]

 

[memtb]

Willfrye027 is spot on about worrying about what a recovered bullet looks like. It's been constantly shoved down our throats that for some bizarre reason a good looking mushroom has everything to do with killing an animal which couldn't be further from the truth.

I think guys are catching on these days that wound channels matter a whole lot more to quick killing then what a piece of lead or copper in a specific shape and size has to do with killing.

I agree….
as long as the bullet did not "come from untogether" upon meeting only minimal resistance! memtb

 

[shaughn]

If you want to learn more on the lethality of Ball/Fmj bullet tumbling then you actually need to go over into military/police side of things.

The accumulated data and on going research is enormous, though some of the in-depth stuff is kind of eyes only.

Most modern ball is not the same as pre 1980's issue due to the change in modern equippage. The m193 was designed for a different use than today's m855. Yugoslav 7.62x39 was different than Soviet 7.62x39 versus Finnish. German m80 ball was different than British even though provisionally NATO spec.

.303 Mk VII and Mk VIIZ had a 174 grain bullet that was designed in such a way that it almost assured to tumble rather quickly and cause nasty wounds for a fmj.

Match King style bullets can go thru several several different ways, mushroom, shatter, break off and just above the core the 2 or more pieces tumble and bounce against each other with the larger piece usually exiting base first. Sometimes the bullet will just banana and tumble bullet diameter in and out doing it's damage on the way thru, but that is kind of rare.

Bullet Placement is King, because reliable expansion is icing on the cake.

 

[memtb]

I kind of agree with your assessment. I tend to go the other way and select a cartridge that is on the heavier end of needed ballistic performance.

To be certain that I understand ……cartridge or caliber?

I prefer to do both! memtb

 

[memtb]

Bullet Placement is King, because reliability is icing on the cake

I concur though with a minor qualification!

I do not want any bullet that may or is expected to do unusual things! I want placement and almost guaranteed repetition of expected performance! memtb

 

[shaughn]

Murphy has our phone number and our address

 

[memtb]

Murphy has our phone number and our address

I won't answer the phone….a listed a false address! memtb

 

[shaughn]

I swear sometimes he must of been a bunk mate!