Did I have unrealistic expectations?

Let's see how quick this one deteriorates. Because this is such a new ball game to me I will pose another elementary question, should I full length size or just neck size my once fired brass through the savage at this point in the game? I currently only have 100 rounds of brass. I know someone will tell me to buy lapua or Norma brass but what I have right now is remington brass. I fully understand that it is not the best brass as my savage is not the best rifle but it is what I have on hand at the present. I would appreciate any helpful input in this area as well.
You will get mixed opinions on which way to size your brass. I like neck sizing my brass, some of the best groups I have ever shot was with neck sized brass, so I never stopped. They do become hard to chamber after several firings. I usually get loose primer pockets around the same time, so just start over.
BTW don't worry about your Savage not being good enough. They shoot tight right out of the box, they don't need truing by a smith. All three of my Savages shoot sub moa. My Savage 10 .243 is a 1-9.25 twist and it shoots the 85 grn SMKs under a inch with multiple charge weights of IMR 4350. The 105 Amax is supposed to do well with this twist rate, but have yet to try them because of the several hundred 85 grn SMKs I have on hand. You can shoot very far with your gun, you just have to stay within your stability parameters..
 
What Gohring3006 said. +1

Actually it is not necessarily an either or. 243 brass like the 308 is known for stretching so neck sizing tends to hold that down. On the other hand you will need to do a full length resize from time to time. As far as brass I have mostly used Winchester in the 243 over the years. I have used Lapua and it is fine brass but it costs fine too. So again it is kinda personal preference.

As far as the 243 at 1000. It can definitely get you there.

Whidden Shares Championship Secrets within AccurateShooter.com
 
wbm,
That is an interesting article. Glad to see the .243 shine. I chose the .243 because I thought it would be a fair caliber to test my abilities and it's versatility doesn't limit you to just punching paper. Good hunting round as well. So basically if this personal attempt to shoot out to 1000 doesn't pan out I will always have an overweight varmint or hunting rifle ,but if I know myself I will prob get way to deep into this and might have to get a second job to support it. Right now all I think I need is a straight jacket. So much to learn and so little time.
 
If was going to give someone one piece of advice on the .243 Win. I would tell them to be careful to not shoot long strings before letting it cool at the range. Its overbore and if you shoot it hot it won't last long...
 
if I know myself I will prob get way to deep into this and might have to get a second job to support it. Right now all I think I need is a straight jacket. So much to learn and so little time.

LOL! Oh yeah. This hobby has ruined many good marriages and put prosperous men into bankruptcy.

I'm pushing 72 hard and I'm still learning and still shooting LOTS! Costly hobby lately.Keep at it Ghost.
 
One thing that kinda blows is that I have to wait on some of the bullets as they are not readily available here, have to order them so can't have the instant gratification. Oh well I will load up what I've got and get some trigger time in anyway. Thanks to all for the helpful info.
 
Ghost 7 don't waste your time with a Savage factory barrel. Spend the $350 and get a Shilen prefit with a 1:8 twist. You will not look back. A good match barrel will shoot the 95gr or 105gr Berger bullets to 1/2 MOA day in and out. For 1000 yards you will want the 105gr bullets and at that range it really will only be good for paper or varmints...

I have one as above in 243 AI, another in 6.5x284, another in 308 win (shoots 1 hole groups at 100 yards) and yet another in 223 with a 1:8 twist with a wylde chamber for shooting 80gr Bergers. The only complaint is that the throat is too tight on the wylde chamber so I can't load long enough till it is opened up a bit..

Savage are good rifles as far as factory rifles go but the barrel is definitely the weak link,
 
Westcliffe01, for now I'm going to make every effort to get my current barrel to shoot as I'm trying to take baby steps into this endeavor but I'm am curious about something. In theory shouldn't you be able to shoot a good quality, let's say, 70 gr bullet out of a 1:8 twist barrel even though historical data tells us it would prefer something heavier? And theoretically, shoot it well? Have you shot anything that small out of your 8 twist that it likes? For example my RRA AR has a 1:8 heavy barrel and it shoots the 55 gr well even though data suggests it should like 62 or heavier. I'm aware that each rifle has its own personality but asking your opinion and/or experience with this. Thanks
 
overstablized bullets have some problem but that should no be a issue at standard velocity out to 1000 yards but understablized is a big problem so with that choose a good bullet that meets your needs. my openion is shoot the highest sectional density that you can stablize. There is no reason not to. You will use less powder and recoil is not at problem with the 243. There is no such thing as a car that has to much power. how you drive it is up to you. but a under powered vehicle just wont meet all your needs. it may most of the time. but not all of them. unless your just shooting 100 yard and are recoil shy why shoot a lower b/c bullet? I shoot a 6mm-06 ai for sage rats 62 grain bullets 1-6 twist way over stablized at 4050 fps why? I only shoot it out to 300 yards max. reason the high twist rate & velocity and thin skin bullets vaporizes sage rats. with a 42 power scope shoot a .400 5 shot at 300 yards. very accurate and way over stablized.
 
First problem you started out with the wrong action and wrong caliber for 1000 yard shooting. savage in most cases shoots well due to there soft barrels. The soft barrel is the only reason that they shoot well. they can be drilled straight thus rifled straight. it has nothing to do with there actions. Hand load close to lands with sierra match kings close to lands about .005 off. if its going to shoot good at all it will. if not scrap it and go with a 260 remington in a 700 remington. better b.c. better cartrage. better gun. keep your scope its ok.

don't know anything about metallurgy, do you!
gary
 
I do, I have a degree in aerodynamics design & engineering and a minor in basic physics. Basic to advanced metallurgy is one of the main courses taken under some engineering degrees. the basic gunsmith finds out real quick what actions and barrels are soft and what ones are hard simply just by working on them. try to drill & tap a ruger m77 or a schultz & larsen you wont evan get past the drilling part much less the taping part before your eyes are opened just how soft savage parts are. ask any barrel manufactor. if you can drill it straight. you can rifle it straight.
 
wbm, that is good to hear. Seems to be a lot of animosity towards the savage but even though I haven't had much time with this rifle and am not satisfied with performance at this point I really do like the rifle. It is pleasant to shoot, I like the trigger and the action isn't bad. Oh yeah...I think it's a cool looking rifle despite what others think. Basically I need it to perform as I'm getting attached to it.

the Savage is far from my favorite action (I like Hi-Walls and Lo-Walls and Ruger #1's). The 700 Remington is OK, and I have one that I consider my favorite hunting rifle. But it's also not the most accurate, yet it does everything I want well. So be it!

Savage actions are hard turned on CNC lathes. Nothing new under the sun as I did it thirty years ago (maybe even longer). Are known for their straitness out of the box, due to the process set up by a process engineer. Barrel nuts are here to stay, and they are not a Savage idea by the way. They have advantages can cannot be approached with a shoulder seated barrel, but the big advantage is cost. If you understand mechanical engineering, you know the advantages and disadvantages.

Back to hard turning and a touch on gun drilling (yes I've done that as well). I've hard turned American Steel drill bushings many times. All it takes is a diamond or (in my case) a ceramic insert and about 1200 rpm. Don't let a chip hit you! Savage uses 4350 or 4360 pre-treat steel (per Bob Greanleaf) for their actions. That's probably about 32rc, but they may spec it 28rc to 34rc. About 45rc is about the max these steels will harden (have seen a few go 47rc). Virtually all C/M steels used are in that area. Stainless steels are all pretty close unless you get into the exotic stuff that are hard to work with on a production basis (I've worked with 15-5, 17ph4, 18-5 and one other I cannot name). Most everybody uses a 416 variant. It's pretty the case where "if I can tool it up, I can cut it."

Gun drilling can be a black art, mostly because few folks do it anymore. It is actually easier (for me anyway) to drill a piece of steel slightly hard rather than dead soft (chips were the issue). Now real hard stuff can be a nightmare, but gun barrels are not 50rc. Tough metals will cause you to drink vast quantities of Malox. Try drilling a 24" piece of 17ph4 sometime. Not real hard, but pretty tough. I've had more than my share of gun drills twist up in the process. Coolants and coolant pressure are extremely critical when you enter into this world (most machines cannot produce enough volume at the desired pressures). Add to this the much needed filtration systems (note plural).

Lastly metal hardness has little to do with the ability to withstand high heat. It's the alloy structure! Hardness will effect the wear properties, but trust me five point either way won't mean a thing.
gary
 
trunst me I have taken my share of maylox. cost in manufactoring for most firearm manufactors is first. due to technology in equipment most of them can be made somewhat accurate. but just like your hi walls & lo-walls that I also have a fettish for there is no longer any pride in workmanship making a firearm correct to start with with the basic rules of design and accuracy in mind. cutting corners then compensating for them by design is no way to make a firearm. and then we the consumer drink the coolaid and like it ?? with todays technology & equipment there is not reason. As for the barrels barrel stock quality is a problem hard & soft spots cause deflection. pac nor & douglas have in long conversations exressed this issue when I asked about bore runout. a large # of barrels supplies today have as much as .040 to .060 runout some of the best .010 ( bore straightness) this is the norm for all of them. there first & best choice for making a perfect barrel is stainless as per them. why mr. Gary???
 
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