Cold gun issues

[GPR23]

Here is a group I shot at lunch. This is 3 shots with the new scope mounted, and using Hornady ammo. I didn't measure but looks about 1/2" 3 shot group. This was with a warm gun sitting in the house, and was the first 3 shots fired 5 hours after sighting in the new scope.

I will leave it out tonight to test the gun cold in the morning.

 

[GPR23]

One last test with a new scope installed and Hornady ammo, left the gun in car overnight and shot 5 round group today. Wanted to make sure after the first one it wasn't walking around anywhere. As you can see in picture, first shot is 1.5" low and the rest are all in a nice group.

I have eliminated everything i can think of with trying new scope, different stock, different ammo. I have tested the gun warm and the ammo cold and vise versa. It is action/barrel problem that exists only when the gun is cold.

Looks like i will throw this one in the safe, and maybe only use it for prairie dogs. I don't trust it coyote hunting. Which is unfortunate as that is what i built it for....

 

[26Reload]

This picture shows first shot low...last picture shows first shot high?

 

[les strat]

Have you tried torque tuning the stock back and forth between each screw in 5 ft lb increments to your torque spec? Worth a try in stead of cranking down one at a time.

 

[WildRose]

What scope are you using?

Somehting is loose, busted, or in a bind somwhere or some combination of all three.

 

[GPR23]

I have tried two separate Burris scopes, a Hogue full aluminum bed stock and the factory wood stock, different action screw torque specs, two different kinds of ammo, along with a proven accurate hand load.

The only thing i haven't changed is the barrel, which is a brand new barrel....

 

[26Reload]

Have you rings been lapped....?
Can't remember if someone else has shot it...and it does the same for them......
It it shoots the same for someone else.....i would say the barrel/action isn't working correct.....but that more technical than me.....

 

[GPR23]

Thinking out loud here. The scope rings came on this gun. They are ruger scope rings that everyone says are suppose to be good. However, i believe i have another set of SS ruger scope rings. I am going to try these out. I also have a wigatinny rail and a scope mounted in picatinny rings. Will try those this weekend.

Looking at the last two targets i posted, i noticed something. The warm target has a nice group and is maybe 1/8" to the right of dead center. I didn't adjust or touch the scope, simply sat it in a car overnight to get cold. The group i shot this morning, even after the first round is 1" to the right.

I noticed this on a few of the other groups as well. I'm wondering if maybe the action face isn't square and the torque from the barrel changes from warm to cold, thus changing POI????

I'm to the point where it is so frustrating I want nothing to do with this gun. But the engineer in my kicks in and I have this overwhelming curiosity to figure out what is the cause and it is driving me crazy! lol I might have to get rid of it simply to keep my sanity!

btw, no one else has shot it as i don't think i can talk my wife into shooting the gun at 7am before work when it is 18 degrees outside... Plus to verify it isn't shooter i brought my 30-06 out this morning and shot a nice 1/2" 3 round group with it for two reasons. A. prove its not me B. It is also a ruger M77 mkII action and i wanted to make sure it doesn't have the same odd cold bore issue. (it didn't)

 

[26Reload]

Well after this much of a problem....kick her butt out of the bed.....

On the last two groups...the cold shot are in top and bottom....not both to the top or to the bottom....so cold bore 1st shot fluctuates that much?.....

 

[GPR23]

If i kick momma outside who's gonna make breakfast?

The picture in post #30 is this mornings group. The low shot is the first shot, then the next 4 shots are stacked up in the larger hole. The cold shot is ~1.5" low, this is the problem I'm fighting.

Post #29 is a 3 shot group from the day before after the gun was sitting inside and was warm. First shot was 1/2" high then next two are in same hole.

 

[WildRose]

Thinking out loud here. The scope rings came on this gun. They are ruger scope rings that everyone says are suppose to be good. However, i believe i have another set of SS ruger scope rings. I am going to try these out. I also have a wigatinny rail and a scope mounted in picatinny rings. Will try those this weekend.

Looking at the last two targets i posted, i noticed something. The warm target has a nice group and is maybe 1/8" to the right of dead center. I didn't adjust or touch the scope, simply sat it in a car overnight to get cold. The group i shot this morning, even after the first round is 1" to the right.

I noticed this on a few of the other groups as well. I'm wondering if maybe the action face isn't square and the torque from the barrel changes from warm to cold, thus changing POI????

I'm to the point where it is so frustrating I want nothing to do with this gun. But the engineer in my kicks in and I have this overwhelming curiosity to figure out what is the cause and it is driving me crazy! lol I might have to get rid of it simply to keep my sanity!

btw, no one else has shot it as i don't think i can talk my wife into shooting the gun at 7am before work when it is 18 degrees outside... Plus to verify it isn't shooter i brought my 30-06 out this morning and shot a nice 1/2" 3 round group with it for two reasons. A. prove its not me B. It is also a ruger M77 mkII action and i wanted to make sure it doesn't have the same odd cold bore issue. (it didn't)

Changing to another set of rings that haven't been lapped isn't going to help you any.

If you don't have a lapping kit and know how to do it properly take it to a gunsmith and have him lap the rings and install the scope.

Many years ago I had a 700bdl that was maddening. No matter what you did it would never zero properly.

The more I read here the more I'm convinced it's a torque issue, possibly the scope moving in the rings, or it needs to be properly bedded.

You may be at a point where you just need to take it to a competent smith, have them bed it, make sure it's prperly floated and everything is torqued properly to save you from driving yourself crazy.

You might want to call and discuss it with Ruger customer service to see if anyone there can point you in a better direction. If that model has had some quirky issues they should know what those issues are and what the solutions are as well for same.

 

[jreagle]

I agree with some of the above statements; from way over here, it seems like the action and/or scope has a torque bend. With this happening it will be nearly impossible to find a good load that shoots. Also shooting with a torqued scope could possibly induce damage the scope depending on how severe the torque is.

If the rifle was my own and I really wanted to keep it.... start with bedding a picatinny rail on top with seekins rings. Shoot to see if it improves. I might also purchase a new scope for the project just to eliminate any variables.

If no improvement, then scrape out the old bedding and re bed the entire action, tang to + 1" ahead of the recoil lug with plenty of Devcon. Let setup with no torque on the action (no action screws). After 3.5-4 hrs in a 75F environment, pop it apart carefully and trim the excess bedding out of the stock with a blade (its still a little soft so this can be done easily), sand sharp bedding edges and let set for a total of 24 to 48 hrs. assemble it with no more than 40- 45 inch lbs on the front and rear action screws and zero torque on the middle screw (barely finger tight is all) and shoot it, developing a new load to see the improvements.

 

[Azrael]

Scrap the barrel. Save yourself some grief.

 

[WildRose]

Scrap the barrel. Save yourself some grief.

There's no reason at this point to believe he has a problem with the barrel. Everything indicates a problem with torque or the scope/mounts.