Chasing the lands.

J E Custom

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Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
10,493
Location
Texas
Brings up a question though.

What steel is used for rifle barrels?

In this country I believe we use chrome-moly ?

In Europe don’t they use chrome-vanadium ?

Which one would have the longest life in the throat/rifling juncture ? Or is there another maybe newer steel that would work better ?
In this country there are three or fore main alloys used.

Chrome Molly, 416 R stainless (Free machining) , 416 stainless and 17-4 PH
Most are buttoned rifling or cut rifling and done in a stress relieved state. good buttoned rifle barrels are normally double stress relieved (After rifling) to remove any additional stress caused by the button process.

In Europe, hammer forging is more common so normally the nickle content is slighter higher for the process.

Quality and barrel life are so objective based on use and care that there are many opinions. In my experience the 416 R seems to have an advantage on Accuracy life depending on rifling twist and groove count, chrome molly seams to have a longer total life, accuracy not as long. And 17-4 ph is somewhere in the middle. Care and maintenance has a huge bearing on accuracy life also. Some barrels are rendered useless by poor maintenance and being allowed to rust/corrode.

The alloy also determines the effective accuracy life and the harder the material is doesn't necessarily assure longer life so what is desirable is an alloy that is tough but can be machined well and with care and maintenance will last a life time, So far, 416 R has been the best material I have found with all of the necessary attributes. I have seen barrel lose accuracy with as few as 2 or 300 rounds, to beyond 20,000 depending on the alloy, care, cartridge and loading's.

J E CUSTOM
 

Rardoin

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Jul 22, 2020
Messages
61
Location
South Louisiana
I compete with Erik in F-open (slow fire 20 shot matches at 600-1000yds). Our precision needs to be .5 MOA over 20 shots to be competitive at the big matches and nationals. Erik is a bit outspoken but is a great guy and an outstanding shooter/wind reader. He does not mind controversy, obviously:) While he is bold at stating his opinions they are not given flippantly but born of solid experience. His video titles are appropriately bold and are designed to get your attention and have been quite successful as heated discussion in threads here and on other sites attest. I will say that I understand the ill feelings some have as Erik can come across as abrasive. However, his methods do work well and are designed to help shooters not get caught up in complexities when trying to sort out a load. His statement that he does not chase the lands is absolutely correct. He adjust seating depth to keep the rifle in tune and does not give a rat's arse about where the lands actually are in relation to the ogive. The initial relationship after the first handful of rounds can be markedly different after 300-1000 rds but I find that my change in seating depth required to hold the same tune does not correlate 1:1 with my 'new' measurements to the lands. I frequently turned a great shooting rifle into an unpredictable one by finding my best seating distance off the lands and keeping that distance the same as the throat eroded. Since I have started using the CBTO measurement as my baseline and adjusting the bullet out a little over time I have been able to keep rifles in more consistent tune. This is not the same as chasing the lands, as some above have noted, as I am not advancing the bullet based on how far the lands advanced. In some cartridges it has been near 1:1 but never the exact same. In my .284 with 184gr hybrids it is definitely not the same. I may not like the style of Erik's presentations but I feel he is presenting solid and very useful information and an easy way to find a starting point for seating depth not requiring special tooling.
 
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muleystalker

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Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
484
Location
Bay Area, Ca.
Erick is a great guy, he doesn't come off abrasive to me. he does use some tongue and check humor and some times has a little trouble pulling it off because people don't know him or what he has accomplished and how some people have treated him in the past when he was handing out some great and hard learned info. A lot of what he says and the way he presents it is kind of inside jokes on how he was received by a few people on another site, just like the shirt he was wearing. He may not be the best speaker or presenter on video but his methods are solid and I for one am appreciative of him taking the time to share his hard earned knowledge of what has worked for him. Its like a top notch fisherman sharing his secrets or fishing spots with you, think of it that way. How many world class shooters are taking the time to share their methods with the general public.
 
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Ranger1994

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
24
Location
North Carolina
Erick is a great guy, he doesn't come off abrasive to me. he does use some tongue and check humor and some times has a little trouble pulling it off because people don't know him or what he has accomplished and how some people have treated him in the past when he was handing out some great and hard learned info. A lot of what he says and the way he presents it is kind of inside jokes on how he was received by a few people on another site, just like the shirt he was wearing. He may not be the best speaker or presenter on video but his methods are solid and I for one am appreciative of him taking the time to share his hard earned knowledge of what has worked for him. Its like a top notch fisherman sharing his secrets or fishing spots with you, think of it that way. How many world class shooters are taking the time to share their methods with the general public.
You're absolutely right, not many are willing to share their secrets, so when they do some of us listen and learn. And its people like J E who are also thinking of others when they see something like this video and believe it might help some of us "non-experts". Thats a big reason I like this forum, some people are willing to share and are trying to help the rest of us.
 

Far North Hunter

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LRH Team Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
173
Location
Minnesota
J E thanks for this video. As a l-o-n-g time hunter, short time reloaded I found this method to be a great way to begin to find my seating depth. As a matter of fact I had just read about this method in an article written by Bryan Litz, so this video reinforces in my mind that I'm doing it correctly. Looking forward to your video as well in the future. Thanks again.
JE, go for that video. I drive myself crazy trying to find lands on new eld bullets!
 

misterc01

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Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
405
Location
Florida Panhandle
So - after watching the video, my thoughts were: yeah, right, whatever. THEN after re-reading thru the thread as more made posts, and hearing who this guy is and knowlegeable folks opinions of his info and presentation method, I re-watched the video. It suddenly made sense, because I was listening to what he was actually saying, and not listening to disagree with what I heard. I decided to retrace my seating depth process, and realized I WAS seating to jam, and then backing down from that mesurement in 0.10 increments. So, I amd going to seat some rounds from that 0.10 original measurement, but in .003 incrments and see what happens. Remindnded me to ALWAYS have an open mind!
 

Beluebow

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
210
Location
Ar.
I compete with Erik in F-open (slow fire 20 shot matches at 600-1000yds). Our precision needs to be .5 MOA over 20 shots to be competitive at the big matches and nationals. Erik is a bit outspoken but is a great guy and an outstanding shooter/wind reader. He does not mind controversy, obviously:) While he is bold at stating his opinions they are not given flippantly but born of solid experience. His video titles are appropriately bold and are designed to get your attention and have been quite successful as heated discussion in threads here and on other sites attest. I will say that I understand the ill feelings some have as Erik can come across as abrasive. However, his methods do work well and are designed to help shooters not get caught up in complexities when trying to sort out a load. His statement that he does not chase the lands is absolutely correct. He adjust seating depth to keep the rifle in tune and does not give a rat's arse about where the lands actually are in relation to the ogive. The initial relationship after the first handful of rounds can be markedly different after 300-1000 rds but I find that my change in seating depth required to hold the same tune does not correlate 1:1 with my 'new' measurements to the lands. I frequently turned a great shooting rifle into an unpredictable one by finding my best seating distance off the lands and keeping that distance the same as the throat eroded. Since I have started using the CBTO measurement as my baseline and adjusting the bullet out a little over time I have been able to keep rifles in more consistent tune. This is not the same as chasing the lands, as some above have noted, as I am not advancing the bullet based on how far the lands advanced. In some cartridges it has been near 1:1 but never the exact same. In my .284 with 184gr hybrids it is definitely not the same. I may not like the style of Erik's presentations but I feel he is presenting solid and very useful information and an easy way to find a starting point for seating depth not requiring special tooling.

Well said Robin.
 
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