CCI 250 mag primers not igniting?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by elmerdeer, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. elmerdeer

    elmerdeer Well-Known Member

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    Here is the problem I ran acroos today, I have 2 times fierd brass that was going on 3rd firing today, they were PFL resized.
    This brass fired some loads that had pressure signs, Ex:extracter marks and slightly sticky bolt once in a while. I did back down from those loads some.
    So here is what happened today I loaded some of my favourite loads and tried them with the cci 250 mag primers instead of the fed 215 primers. I did back down first and worked my way up, Now withe the origianal primer fed 215 mag they would always fire, with the cci I had 20 out of 45 rnds not go off, now I am wondering what could it be? Did I trash my brass by shooting hot loads, but my primer pockets are still pretty tight.
    My action is a Stiller Predator, my caliber is 7mm Dakota, and my brass is Norma.

    1) Is my brass the problem? Primer pockets are still pretty tight.
    2)Are the cci 250 mag primers different in size, height, width, to make my firing pin not strike them hard enough?
    3)How deep should primers be seated? I always seat primers with my rcbs hand primer and after the first squeeze I rotate the brass and squeeze again, never had a problem doing it that way before.
    4)Can ther be something wrong with my firirg pin?
    Thanks
    Elmer
     
  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Did any of your hot loads Pierce a primer? ( a hole wher the pin hit)

    If so there could be that small piece of primer skin in by your firing pin. I would dia-assemble the bolt, inspect and clean it. I have had some primer issues before but never at the percentage you stated. Or even close. I would be looking real close at the pin and inside the bolt.

    Jeff
     
  3. canyonman1

    canyonman1 Well-Known Member

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    I have had bad luck with cci's also, up to 10 out of 20 misfires. I switched back to Fed. 215 and never had 1! I only used the cci's cause I could'nt get 215's. Big mistake. Also my velocity is higher and E.S is 3 and S.D is 1.
    338 edge, 300 gr. sierra mk, rem. brass, 90 gr. RL-25, Fed. 215, 2758 fps.
    gun)
     
  4. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    You didn't say if the primers were being forcefully struck by the firing pin or not. Is there a good sized depression in the primers that didn't light up? At least as deep as on the 215s that ignited properly?

    If the primers aren't defective, then here are some possibilities I can think of:

    1) Have you accidentally set the shoulder back too far so that the beltless case head is not kept in firm contact with the bolt face when your reloaded ammo is chambered?
    2) Is your firing pin falling freely; not bound up with dirt, corrosion, or as Broz was thinking - a piece of perforated primer or other debris?
    3) How cold was it when you shot the CCI 250s? I've had cold weather cause misfires when my firing pin assembly wasn't degreased in colder weather. The grease gets thick enough that the firing pin doesn't fall quickly enough to set off the primers.
    4) How old are the CCIs? And even then I would only be concerned if they were stored through wide temperature and humidity swings, of if they were somehow tainted while in storage.
    5) If the dud primers are impacted heavily and they aren't igniting... I've seen WD-40 deactivate primers in the past. Didn't get WD-40 or any other penetrating solvent spilled or sprayed on the loaded shells, the empty cases, or primer pockets or primers did you?

    Let us know what you figure out. I doubt that CCI sent out a batch of fresh, defective primers.
     
  5. elmerdeer

    elmerdeer Well-Known Member

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    1) My shouilder has been set back .002-.003 from a crush fit.
    2) I keep my firing pin assembly clean
    3) I was indoor shooting outdoors so where my bulletswere it was 50.
    4) About 1 year old.
    5)No oils have gotten to my primers and I always keep the extra boxes saeled in a ziplock bag.
    Here is some more info I measured my primer pockets and they were .128"-.1305" deep and the primers that did not go off were seated .009-.010" deep.
    Thanks
    Elmer
     
  6. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if my ideas seemed overly simple. Those are some issues I myself have experienced or seen others experience leading to primer ignition failures.

    The information I've seen on primer seating is that they should be seated 0.004" below the head of the cases. That's what the folks that sell primer pocket uniformers state when they sell their tools. So you're about twice as deep as their specification.

    Did you uniform your primer pockets? Possibly too deeply? Either that or the cases came with overly deep primer pockets, or the primers aren't as tall as they should be. That's the only thing that appears out of the ordinary from what you've shared.

    Are the dud primers indented properly? Sufficient to expect ignition?

    Quick test on the primers is grab another brand and pop some off with just the primers seated on an empty shell casing. Maybe you've got a bad batch of primers. Or CCI labeled some large pisol primers as large magnum rifle primers. Large pistol primers are shorter in height than large rifle primers. They'll go in and seat fine but they go in too deeply.

    Got access to any other large rifle or large rifle magnum primers? That's what I'd try next. If another brand of primer ignites 100% then you've evidently received some defective CCIs. AKA human error.

    If the dud primers are indented sufficient for ignition and another brand of primers fails to ignite, then it's time to take the firing pin mechanism out of the bolt and examine the spring, firing pin, and assembly.
     
  7. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    High pressure loads will not cause a deeper primer pocket. The primer pocket will swell and loosen in diameter, but if anything, the bottom of the primer pocket will be forced back to a shallower depth relative to the case head.
     
  8. elmerdeer

    elmerdeer Well-Known Member

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    Well I checked the firing pin, I checked to see if trigger sear was slowing down the firng pin,and i also checked the depth my pockets in all my brassfired and new everything is the same, so then ,I thouhgt i had seated them to deep but I seated some in new brass and chambered and fired five rnds and those went off, next I pulled about 10 rnds that had not fired and chambered those and pessed the trigger 3-4 times on each and made the primer look like a crater and they still didnt go off, so I am starting to think that its the primers, they're no good.
    Elmer
     
  9. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Somewhat surprising, but I would say you've reached a valid conclusion. Thanks for the follow-up and providing the "rest of the story".
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  10. elmerdeer

    elmerdeer Well-Known Member

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    Update, i could'nt resist I took a hammer to the primers that did not go off and guess what, they went bang! I geuss its a firing pin issue and not the primers.
    Elmer
     
  11. backwoods hunter

    backwoods hunter Well-Known Member

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    I have used cci 250 primer for many years and recently i got 2 pacts of 100 during the shortage that i have had the same problems with. Hang fires and just will not go off. I just recently got a new brick and have not gotten to try any of them yet. I hope these one work!!!!!
     
  12. Troutslayer

    Troutslayer Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was about to suggest, lay a bunch on the garage floor and go to town with a hammer. Although, just because a hammer can set them off doesn't necessarily mean that a firing pin will?
     
  13. 436

    436 Well-Known Member

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    You might try crush fitting the primer, using a stronger tool, like the RCBS Automatic Priming Tool. This moves the cup and anvil closer.
    It's possible that the firing pin not reaching far enough or the firing pin spring is to week. Not to mention the brass moving as the firing pin strikes the primer, do to a case sizing problem that has been pick up on yet. Or.... maybe all of the above....
    :D
    Just my 0.02
    436