On a side note to Idaho Hunter1 or anyone else: have any of you saw much difference between the 215 fgmm and the cci 250. I've used them both in loads and interchanged each other but I never saw an appreciable difference in velocity or es. I'm sure someone out there has saw a difference. I do know the cup on the 215 seems thinner. It seems to flatten and/or crater easier than the 250.
CCI 250 not igniting
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Hugnot
Well-Known Member
The primers are seated so the anvils contact the bottom of the pocket, the pin protrusion checks out and they go off upon a 2nd try?
My guess would be a bad lot of primers which is really unlikely or some hang up inside the bolt which has been cleaned up. Look for a shiny area on the spring which would indicate rubbing/friction/resistance inside the bolt. I like Hornady One Shot lube for my rifle innards.
Edit: Possibly, the CCI 250's are somewhat harder than the Fed 210',215's and that with some spring contact/resistance inside the bolt is causing the problem.
My guess would be a bad lot of primers which is really unlikely or some hang up inside the bolt which has been cleaned up. Look for a shiny area on the spring which would indicate rubbing/friction/resistance inside the bolt. I like Hornady One Shot lube for my rifle innards.
Edit: Possibly, the CCI 250's are somewhat harder than the Fed 210',215's and that with some spring contact/resistance inside the bolt is causing the problem.
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Idaho Hunter1
Well-Known Member
I was using CCI 250s with H4350, H4831 and RL22 because ES and SD was single digit and higher with FGMM. FGMM with RL33 and H1000 was good for me.
Yes, I did just this week with CCI BR-4 primers
I'm hand priming for the first time with a new Frankfort Arsenal Adjustable hand primer.
Seems that I'm seating too deep. 1 out of 6-7 wouldn't fire. I'd re-arm the firing pin and they'd go off on the second strike.
Having just had the same experience... I would guess yours are seated too deep as well.
Maybe the primer cup size was accidentally shortened at mfg. Machining tolerance issue.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
I believe the op has it figured out. The key here was that they always fired on the second strike. This indicates that primers were not fully seated. It took the first firing pin strike to seat the primer the rest of the way and then they were good for the second strike. Bad primers or slow firing pin would not reliably fire on second strike. I clean my springs in zippo lighter fluid. Let them dry and a small film of lube will stay behind. Not enough to freeze up. Use the same zippo fluid to clean triggers. Never had a problem using it for the last 30 yrs on all my rifles. The K and M seater that cost around 60 bucks is a very good primer tool with lots of feel and has adjustable depth. It's all real steel and will last forever. Best bang for the buck in my opinion.
Shep
Shep
villagelightsmith
Well-Known Member
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I have always had good luck with CCI 250's. I am confident this would never happen to me except in the final rounds of the Super Shoot, King of 2 Miles, if there was a set of antlers so big my scope's visual field could only span a third of their width, or in the odd case where I might be looking at a rapidly growing halo of teeth. "Click!" Oh yeah.
This is spot on. Primers are not fully seated on some. Firing pin seats them when the don't go off, next try they are seated fully and work.
I recently switched to that K&M tool (in part due to Shep's recommendation) and it works extremely well. I have tried may of the others and the K&M quality is much better (I haven't tried the 21st Century). You can feel the primer bottom then slightly pre-load/crush. The Lee holder set works great in it and is less $ I don't know of a better way to get the primers set consistently every time. Feel is MUCH better than on a press. I think by feel is much better than measuring since brass can vary and it isn't about getting them to an even height but fully seated with that slight crush.
Get those primers seated all the way and you will be golden.
A thought: is it possible that the "pellet" of composition in the primers is either getting damaged during seating or other handling operation (like loading a primer tube on the press)? Someone suggested trying a hand primer to be sure they are seated fully. I think that's a good idea. Seat some on and off press, compare seating depth and, at the same time, use another process to handle/insert the primers.
I say this because somewhere in the foggy depths of my brain, there is something whispering to me about the composition in primers getting cracked and being inconsistent in function.
FWIW
--HC
25WSM
Well-Known Member
One thing I learned along time ago from shooting BR is to rotate your brass 180 and hit that primer again. Try it sometime. Seat the primer as normal and then rotate and hit it again and you will feel it move and seat again. I do this 100% of the time. By the way the 21st century tool is very nice and would do everything needed forever also. For the value the K and M can't be beat. And it seats perfectly also with lots of feel.
Shep
Shep
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
As stated your primer pockets are clean, and you still encounter misfires.
Here are my thoughts. ( I use CCI #250 primers in my 300,& 338 Win Mags and never had a problem )
In order by process of elimination, you must consider the following but personally, I think that it is your primers that are the problem. Are they from the same batch and lot? If so consider trying a different lot number. (if you can find em) and please follow along.
If possible clean and deburr the flash hole from inside the case .this is especially so on virgin brass hulls.
Even though I tumble my brass in pin media, I still remove the residuals that are left in the primer pocket by using a Lyman Case Prep Express cleaning tool.
I do not believe that your brand of brass is not an issue however your primer pockets may be.
In that light just eliminate that problem and just clean your primer pockets.
(You would be surprised as to what is left in the primer pocket even on virgin brass)
I know that this may seem like a lot of extra work but it is one way of eliminating either the primer or the firing pin as the culprit of your problem so please read on!
Now after all the preliminary case adjustments are made you can seat your primers.
I use a hand seating tool from Frankford Arsenal just for this purpose.
It is one of the few priming tools that allows for perfect seating of any primer because it has an adjustment for an exact seating depth of your primer simply by turning a wheel.
Now that your primer is seated correctly -.003" below flush you are ready.
1) Prime five rounds without powder or bullet and because CCI #250 primers are on the hard side prime only and set aside.
2) Using several brands of Magnum primers (if you can find them ) repeat the process and prime only more bass hulls.
3) Mark each of the cases with a Sharpie identifying the primers that you loaded.
4) In a safe location load a case( primer only without either powder or bullet) and pull the trigger.
5) Repeat until you have shot off all your cases.
Did any fail to fire?
If so which brand., or did you experience a failure to fire with several brands of primers?
If you have gone this far and experienced a failure to fire on all three rifles using different primers well you have either eliminated your primers by finding the problem primer brand or must look at the firing pin and spring assemblies.
Take apart your bolts and remove the firing pin and spring assembly.
After you examine both, clean your spring and firing pin thoroughly then lightly oil and I mean lightly with say Rem Oil and set aside. ( perform this on all three of your rifles)
Now attack the bolt faces
If needed remove the extractor then proceed to give the bolt face a thorough cleaning.
After wiping down your bolt and firing pin assembly replace the extractor and reassemble your bolt.
If all looks good I would again make up several primed only cases and repeat the test outlined above.
If you still experience either a light primer strike or a failure to fire well then I believe that either a new firing pin and spring combination will solve your problems. I would consider replacing your firing pin spring first as a week sping will cause plenty of headaches until it is replaced.
But honestly, I believe that the problem stems from your brand of primer, primer seating depth, primer pockets, and or the flash holes themselves as this is happening not just with one, but all three rifles. In that light, I tend to think that your bolt assemblies and firing pins on all three rifles are OK and not your culprits.
Sincerely hope that this longwinded dissertation will give you some food for thought!
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bullet man
Well-Known Member
For rifles get a bench mounted priming tool I have a rcbs for pistols a hand primer is ok my thumb kept getting sore trying to prime rifle so I switched to the bench model would never go back it will seat any kind of primer
We're making this way too complicated. If it was bad primers or flash holes you don't get these symptoms. The primers are not firing first time but always the second hit. First hit seats, second fires. The fact that it's 30% of the time is not one time issue.
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cmysix
Well-Known Member
WAR EAGLE! New member I'm in Opelika
