Cartridges That Need to be Revamped or Revived

[ATH]

5) 6.5-06 A- Square

Anyone who likes fast 6.5s should look at the 6.5-06AI. 3100fps with the heavies. What's not to like.

 

[jbronner13]

The likelihood is that anybody who buys a Tikka. Sako, or Rem Classic in 6.5 Swede is going to handload for it because they know about the lower spec so they are going to load it to ~62000 PSI.

So judging by your earlier post where you stated

"
2) The vast majority of hunters and shooters don't handload.

3) Those that do handload often do it to save money and are usually not into eeking out the last bit of performance, they are happy with 1/4 inch groups.

4) Hunters and shooters attempting to maximize performance are less than 10% of the hunting and shooting public."

Does this roughly equate to 0.001% of hunters buying a 6.5x55 Swede to use it to its full potential? Because that's exactly the point I am trying to make.

If people were aware of the ability and potential of the round maybe we could see some manufacturers making these rounds for those that don't handload and having more manufacturers chamber nice rifles for the cartridge.

 

[sedancowboy]

I get your points by and agree to some extent but the SAAMI specs on the 6.5x55 SE from what I am understand are simply there for all the old military rifles chambered for that cartridge than can't withstand high pressure modern cartridges. Yet we have many modern rifle manufacturers chambering new rifles in those cartridges (Sako and Tikka come to mind) and they are essentially handicapping the cartridge. I know this is only one example of an underpowered cartridge but I am sure there are others out there with the same problem, my guess is a lot of the old European military cartridges but that's a whole other can of worms with their oddball hunting laws regarding ex-military cartridges not being deemed suitable for civilian hunting use.

That being said there are also some great cartridges out there that were botched from the their inception by poor twist rates, poor rifle choices, suboptimal barrel length, etc. I know that SAAMI Is the reason for some cartridges never evolving, but some never had a chance! The 350 Remington Magnum or it's ballistic twin the 35 Whelen strike me as two cartridges that should be a lot more popular than they are given their usefulness in a variety of hunting scenarios and for the majority of big game in the lower 48 (albeit not at long range). But come on Remington….18 inch barrel rolling that cartridge out in the Model 600 with that hideous plastic trigger guard and shark fin? Then later the almost equally awful 673. Don't get me wrong, I actually love the 600/660 models, just not for the 350 Rem Mag or 6.5 Rem Mag and they should have made a few little changes to that rifle to make it the perfect handy little woods gun. Another fantastic heavy timber shorter range thumper the 338 Federal comes to mind as a head scratcher for why it never caught on. It has all of the elements to make a great brush gun: stopping power, good bullet selection, tolerable kick, good accuracy….no buyers. I did no man, I guess that's why we can handload.

You proved my point perfectly! I know that is not what you wanted to hear but that is exactly why SAMMI exists. The people who own old rifles that are chambered in 6.5X55 should be able to shoot 6.5X55 ammo in their gun safely and not have it blow up. We all do it, the 45 Colt comes to mind I load mine hot and shoot them in lever actions and strong revolvers but that don't work for the average Joe who goes to the store and buys 45 Colt ammo to shoot in the old revolver his granddaddy left him. I hear you and I am sad to see these old cartridges fall by the wayside and fall into obsolescence and the old guns end up unusable. But we really don't want people to get injured because we won't except the standards SAMMI has set for our benefit.
What I am saying is let's except that fact and move on it is for our own good. Let's also stop harping on companies who come out with new cartridges when it is to our benefit.
Henry

 

[jbronner13]

Anyone who likes fast 6.5s should look at the 6.5-06AI. 3100fps with the heavies. What's not to like.

This

 

[jbronner13]

You proved my point perfectly! I know that is not what you wanted to hear but that is exactly why SAMMI exists. The people who own old rifles that are chambered in 6.5X55 should be able to shoot 6.5X55 ammo in their gun safely and not have it blow up. We all do it, the 45 Colt comes to mind I load mine hot and shoot them in lever actions and strong revolvers but that don't work for the average Joe who goes to the store and buys 45 Colt ammo to shoot in the old revolver his granddaddy left him. I hear you and I am sad to see these old cartridges fall by the wayside and fall into obsolescence and the old guns end up unusable. But we really don't want people to get injured because we won't except the standards SAMMI has set for our benefit.
What I am saying is let's except that fact and move on it is for our own good. Let's also stop harping on companies who come out with new cartridges when it is to our benefit.
Henry

Why not just call it a 6.5x55 +P and make everyone happy?

 

[Bob Wright]

It would be interesting to take one of these old cartridges and just push them with these modern components, sturdy and faster twist barrels, quality actions. The AI always comes to mind because of the utility of using parent cartridges or the AI formed brass. I think the stubbornness of rifle manufacturers to stay up with what wildcatters, hunters, competitors wanted, it started killing off the "boring" cartridges and the rifles made for them became boring.I still like many of them. 22-250, 243, 270 all with slow twist, short mag length, shallow throats, etc. Mine need work, I'll admit. They don't get much bench time these days.
The new Remington (others too) offerings are apparently addressing most of these shortcomings. I hope they did their homework correctly.

 

[Koda_]

What are some of the cartridges out there that you all think have potential and should be much more popular and prevalent than they are today? What is holding these cartridges back and how do we fix the issues?

The potential of the .257cal is well established but the 25-06 cartridge should be much more popular and prevalent than it is today. What we need is rifle companies to make them with a faster twist and slightly deeper throat to accomodate the newer (longer) higher BC projectiles available for this. With the 6.5 craze in the current spotlight, Im not confident this will happen...

 

[R700Gunslinger]

6.5mm Rem Mag and 8mm Rem Mag

I have a good stockpile of brass for each cartridge.

My 6.5mm Rem Mag isn't complete, need to pillar bed the stock. The barreled action was done about two years ago on a 700 long action with a Holland recoil lug and Bartlein 7.5 twist barrel. I ordered the reamer from JGS and was designed with 0.1750" freebore to seat the 150 grain SMK out long.

The 8mm Rem Mag is a future build. The action and brass are all that I have for it right now. I plan to shoot the Cutting Edge 256 grain bullets. I would be nice to see bullet manufacturers offer more in 8mm/.323 and at around 300 grains.

 

[deadidarren]

Anyone who likes fast 6.5s should look at the 6.5-06AI. 3100fps with the heavies. What's not to like.

Have a look at the 6.5 gibbs

 

[jbronner13]

It would be interesting to take one of these old cartridges and just push them with these modern components, sturdy and faster twist barrels, quality actions. The AI always comes to mind because of the utility of using parent cartridges or the AI formed brass. I think the stubbornness of rifle manufacturers to stay up with what wildcatters, hunters, competitors wanted, it started killing off the "boring" cartridges and the rifles made for them became boring.I still like many of them. 22-250, 243, 270 all with slow twist, short mag length, shallow throats, etc. Mine need work, I'll admit. They don't get much bench time these days.
The new Remington (others too) offerings are apparently addressing most of these shortcomings. I hope they did their homework correctly.

I had read somewhere that RemArms was looking into updating twist rates for some of the older cartridges but they didn't provide much detail other than that. My hope was the 270 Winchester and 25-06. I also just have an unhealthy love for the 350 Rem Mag and 8mm Rem Mag…..I really want to see rifles for those rounds back on shelves and pictures of dead grizzlies with 8mm Rem Mag and 350 Rem Mag sized holes in them. I just don't think we will see it happen ever because of the Ruger compact magnums….which also shockingly aren't very popular. With all the modern propellants we have you think people would jump at the idea of getting the same magnum velocity from a 4-6 inch shorter tube……I dunno, Ruger needs a new marketing team.

 

[jbronner13]

To keep in line with SAAMI I think the general consensus is we could just use the same work around they have been doing with pistol cartridges for some time now: slap a +P designation on the box and barrel, tighten up that twist and make all of the curmudgeonly (myself included) posters over here very happy until we find a new thing to be grumpy about. I have visions dancing in my head of 170 grain 270 Winchester bullets sitting on the shelf next to 135 grain 25-06's and 156 grain 6.5-06's.

 

[R700Gunslinger]

Hopefully Peterson will produce 25-06 brass. I e-mailed them asking, can't remember what they said in their reply but it could be possible.

Another cartridge I'd like to see revived is the 6mm Rem.

 

[Elkeater]

I'll play and add the 7x57 in either standard or AI form. Loaded up to pressure in modern rifles, it's a great cartridge. More nostalgic then the 7-08 and also sexier loaded with 160 AB's.

I've always wanted 7x57. Never thought about the ai version. I'll bet that would scoot a 168 Berger along pretty nicely.

Other cartridges I'd add to the list would be the .22-250. Needs a fast twist barrel instead of a 14 twist. Would like to be able to shoot 70 gr Barnes or 64gr hammers. Makes it a versatile rifle for everything up to deer.

 

[horsefor4]

I would choose the 7wsm just need better brass and 8 twist barrel.