Carbon barrels

Shane Lindsey

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Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
1,516
I had Christensen that pressured up fast for me. Very fast and very accurate, but I dismissed it early as it was 12 tw RUM (who does that). Probably would not do another based on my interaction with customer service.

Had a Proof on a 300 WM that shot very well, but we aren't going to talk about that one.

Have (2) Carbon Six barrels. One on a 308 win that I sent to them to chamber/fit. It shoots ok. My other C6 is on a 300 RUM. It too pressures up fast, but is below Berger recommended max with above their max velocity if that makes sense. It shoots the 215s, 245s very well....and it was a Remage I put on in the garage :p .

I think it has more to do with the GS than the manufacturers you mention. Can charge $700 for crap and get away with it for long.
 

Northkill

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Aug 5, 2019
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PA
Northkill is definitely correct on more steal in the Barts than Proof. I was able to get some RT data to support the Barts being a thicker liner. The Barts are typically 8-10oz heavier but there is only so much weight willing to sacrifice before i give up some accuracy. My previous 300 Norma built with a Proof sendero was getting warm after 3 shots and would seem to be walking. From a hunting standpoint we all know the cold bore shot is usually the only that matters but when practicing it gets a little annoying having to wait longer between shots.
That's awesome you had the capabilities to do this. And, yeah, cold bore shot is supposed to be all you need in the big game field. I just like the opportunity to run, say a 6.5 Sherman Max, (wink) on varmints etc over the summer. Some of our groundhog shots are way out there. Engaging multiple targets in a matter of minutes in summer weather can be a problem for "walking barrels". Been there, done that.
 

JMGamesniper19

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Feb 16, 2016
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421
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USA
Lets set some baseline constants before we delve into the question specifically. In order to explain it fully I would have to write a 6 page response so not gonna happen, know I am speaking from personal carbon barrel building experience gained in working with one of the most prominent carbon barrel makers in the U.S.
  • Carbon fiber is 5x lighter and 2x stronger than steel
  • Carbon barrels are a wrap around the outside of a steel liner. Wraps can vary, process can vary, the thickness of the steel barrel liner can vary, type of carbon used can vary - there are about 50 different types of carbon that can be used in a barrel.
  • Carbon barrels create a stiffer and more repeatable barrel signature through the firing process, carbon doesn't wear out like steel and with the right build process, will move heat away from the center of the barrel faster than a steel barrel of the same contour - less "barrel whip" over time - a sendero carbon barrel is going to be stiffer than a #4 steel barrel and have less barrel whip
  • All Carbon barrels are glued together and also to the steel barrel liner. The "glue" or resin can come from 30 different places and can have varying stiffness and heat resistant properties - hence varied barrel processes and build types - ability to contorl and move heat
  • Carbon barrels theoretically have less POI shift than a steel barrel under higher heat conditions, due to many of the properties I laid out above
  • POI shift is a variable action that can only be controlled in a jig, unless you are seeing something wild. Most people who think they see POI shift find out its not the rifle barrel in most cases, unless you are shooting a #2 contour in high rates of fire and then yeah, you are going to see significant POI shift. Lots of variable. Can carbon barrels POI shift yes and in the early days of building, say anything before about 2014, they did. Now, its pretty rare unless you are shooting ALOT and at a high rate of speed.
  • PRS shooters use both carbon and steel barrels. There is no rhyme or reason who shoots what frankly, its about what is accurate and repeatable (its also about if they are sponsored or buying the barrel yourself) so if they arent worried too much about day to day POI, should you be?
So, to talk about any barrel having more or less POI shift is inherent to the barrel manufacturing process and how it moves heat compared to the stiffness of the barrel; also how the resin or overall stiffness of the barrel remains constant due to heat. We are talking about constant heat above 200 degrees or so . The more heat, the more POI Shift in basic terms, up to a point that the barrel begins to melt. The carbon doesnt melt, the resin holding it together begins to melt. Every single barrel manufacturer is chasing the holy grail of making a carbon barrel that will survive the heat from a crew served automatic weapon for the military. No one is there yet.

To say that barrel from maker A shifts more or less than a barrel from maker B is a one time personal experience that has too many variables to say that every single barrel from either maker is susceptible to POI shift more or less. Just like steel, it is an individual barrel issue.
I personally have carbon barrels from multiple makers and all of them shoot. That said, I have also had a bad barrel from one of them, it was too tight and created too much pressure and I had to return it.

IMO and IME, any barrel will shoot accurately in the right conditions, with the right load, and with the right shooter behind it. Steel, carbon, whatever. That same barrel might not shoot in the wrong conditions with the wrong load and the wrong person behind it. So if you have the money and need to save the weight, get a carbon barrel. If you are going to expect less POI shift under high rates of continual fire at high heat, get a carbon barrel. If you are going to go to the range and shoot 25 rounds in an hour and then take that rifle hunting, and shoot maybe 2 times more, you may not need a carbon barrel.
 

Northkill

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626
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PA
To say that barrel from maker A shifts more or less than a barrel from maker B is a one time personal experience that has too many variables to say that every single barrel from either maker is susceptible to POI shift more or less. Just like steel, it is an individual barrel issue.
I personally have carbon barrels from multiple makers and all of them shoot. That said, I have also had a bad barrel from one of them, it was too tight and created too much pressure and I had to return it.
I appreciate the informational approach. No one should cast broad aspersions against any brand based on one experience or on opinion. My evaluations are based on broad experience with many different shooters. Like I said before, "Brand P" might make barrels that shoot like crazy. But if more of them have POI and pressure issues than what comes from "Brand B", I'll personally put my money in "Brand B" even though I know many "Brand P" barrels shoot bugholes and might have an aesthetic advantage. On the flip side, I don't put much stock in someone who champions a certain brand as "Best" based on a single, or minimal count, experience. "Best" is somewhat subjective to intended use and individual priorities. The way barrel stress is managed in the manufacturing process is a factor as well. Some just have it figured out better than others. Then there's customer service...
 

bsnyder

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Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
407
Location
colorado
Lets set some baseline constants before we delve into the question specifically. In order to explain it fully I would have to write a 6 page response so not gonna happen, know I am speaking from personal carbon barrel building experience gained in working with one of the most prominent carbon barrel makers in the U.S.
  • Carbon fiber is 5x lighter and 2x stronger than steel
  • Carbon barrels are a wrap around the outside of a steel liner. Wraps can vary, process can vary, the thickness of the steel barrel liner can vary, type of carbon used can vary - there are about 50 different types of carbon that can be used in a barrel.
  • Carbon barrels create a stiffer and more repeatable barrel signature through the firing process, carbon doesn't wear out like steel and with the right build process, will move heat away from the center of the barrel faster than a steel barrel of the same contour - less "barrel whip" over time - a sendero carbon barrel is going to be stiffer than a #4 steel barrel and have less barrel whip
  • All Carbon barrels are glued together and also to the steel barrel liner. The "glue" or resin can come from 30 different places and can have varying stiffness and heat resistant properties - hence varied barrel processes and build types - ability to contorl and move heat
  • Carbon barrels theoretically have less POI shift than a steel barrel under higher heat conditions, due to many of the properties I laid out above
  • POI shift is a variable action that can only be controlled in a jig, unless you are seeing something wild. Most people who think they see POI shift find out its not the rifle barrel in most cases, unless you are shooting a #2 contour in high rates of fire and then yeah, you are going to see significant POI shift. Lots of variable. Can carbon barrels POI shift yes and in the early days of building, say anything before about 2014, they did. Now, its pretty rare unless you are shooting ALOT and at a high rate of speed.
  • PRS shooters use both carbon and steel barrels. There is no rhyme or reason who shoots what frankly, its about what is accurate and repeatable (its also about if they are sponsored or buying the barrel yourself) so if they arent worried too much about day to day POI, should you be?
So, to talk about any barrel having more or less POI shift is inherent to the barrel manufacturing process and how it moves heat compared to the stiffness of the barrel; also how the resin or overall stiffness of the barrel remains constant due to heat. We are talking about constant heat above 200 degrees or so . The more heat, the more POI Shift in basic terms, up to a point that the barrel begins to melt. The carbon doesnt melt, the resin holding it together begins to melt. Every single barrel manufacturer is chasing the holy grail of making a carbon barrel that will survive the heat from a crew served automatic weapon for the military. No one is there yet.

To say that barrel from maker A shifts more or less than a barrel from maker B is a one time personal experience that has too many variables to say that every single barrel from either maker is susceptible to POI shift more or less. Just like steel, it is an individual barrel issue.
I personally have carbon barrels from multiple makers and all of them shoot. That said, I have also had a bad barrel from one of them, it was too tight and created too much pressure and I had to return it.

IMO and IME, any barrel will shoot accurately in the right conditions, with the right load, and with the right shooter behind it. Steel, carbon, whatever. That same barrel might not shoot in the wrong conditions with the wrong load and the wrong person behind it. So if you have the money and need to save the weight, get a carbon barrel. If you are going to expect less POI shift under high rates of continual fire at high heat, get a carbon barrel. If you are going to go to the range and shoot 25 rounds in an hour and then take that rifle hunting, and shoot maybe 2 times more, you may not need a carbon barrel.
Thanks for the in-depth reply. Will be doing two barrels one for the wife in a 7 Sherman max and one for me in the 7 mega. I have a Bart steel barrel on my 6.5ss and its the most accurate gun I’ve ever owned and or shot. Most of what the wife and I do is shoot steel in the off season and hunt in the fall we love to shoot together so it’s not uncommon for us to head to the range with 4 different guns and spend the day banging away at steel. Normal off season range days we go through 100-250 rounds in total. I like the looks of carbon fiber and the weight savings. Thanks to all that have added their input.
 

bsnyder

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Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
407
Location
colorado
After talking with Rich, i need to call bart and see what the lead time is for a 7 twist .284 barrel other wise ill just go 8 twist and be done. I plan on running the 154's i never did here back from hells canyon so we should be set. i will list my build specs below keeping in mind as most build some parts are subject to change.

tikka t3 mag bolt face action
mesa precision stock in glacier camo
26 in bart carbon barrel 1-8/1-7 twist chambered in 7 mega.
bottom metal is looking like factory with hells canyon armory mags maybe.
bushnell lrhs 2, 4.5-18x44 with the g2 reticle
factory trigger tuned to 1.75lbs
terminator t3 muzzle break.
kampfeld will be doing the smith work for me.
 

hugheserj

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Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
56
Location
New Zealand
I have one carbon barrel from Bartlein. It's a 26" Sendero profile, 9 twist on a 30 Nosler. It sped up quite a lot through barrel break in and took 100+ shots before it settled down. It is the easiest barrel to clean that I've owned and now shoots 0.2" three shot groups, including a cold bore shot with 230gr OTM Bergers when I do my bit.
 

bsnyder

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Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
407
Location
colorado
I have one carbon barrel from Bartlein. It's a 26" Sendero profile, 9 twist on a 30 Nosler. It sped up quite a lot through barrel break in and took 100+ shots before it settled down. It is the easiest barrel to clean that I've owned and now shoots 0.2" three shot groups, including a cold bore shot with 230gr OTM Bergers when I do my bit.
Can’t ask for anything better than that! Show that boom stick off throw it in the thread.
 

hugheserj

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Nov 14, 2018
Messages
56
Location
New Zealand
Can’t ask for anything better than that! Show that boom stick off throw it in the thread.
Thanks bsnyder I'm planning on doing a post on the build at some point but here are some photos.
 

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Northkill

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626
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PA
After talking with Rich, i need to call bart and see what the lead time is for a 7 twist .284 barrel other wise ill just go 8 twist and be done. I plan on running the 154's i never did here back from hells canyon so we should be set. i will list my build specs below keeping in mind as most build some parts are subject to change.

tikka t3 mag bolt face action
mesa precision stock in glacier camo
26 in bart carbon barrel 1-8/1-7 twist chambered in 7 mega.
bottom metal is looking like factory with hells canyon armory mags maybe.
bushnell lrhs 2, 4.5-18x44 with the g2 reticle
factory trigger tuned to 1.75lbs
terminator t3 muzzle break.
kampfeld will be doing the smith work for me.
Bartlein Barrels, Inc.
262-677-1717
[email protected]
Ask for Mark or listen for his extension. He's good and prompt. He'll tell you lead time, and so far they've beat it every time for me.
 

Plowboy85

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Mar 13, 2013
Messages
655
Location
Mississippi
After talking with Rich, i need to call bart and see what the lead time is for a 7 twist .284 barrel other wise ill just go 8 twist and be done. I plan on running the 154's i never did here back from hells canyon so we should be set. i will list my build specs below keeping in mind as most build some parts are subject to change.

tikka t3 mag bolt face action
mesa precision stock in glacier camo
26 in bart carbon barrel 1-8/1-7 twist chambered in 7 mega.
bottom metal is looking like factory with hells canyon armory mags maybe.
bushnell lrhs 2, 4.5-18x44 with the g2 reticle
factory trigger tuned to 1.75lbs
terminator t3 muzzle break.
kampfeld will be doing the smith work for me.
If Bartlein doesn’t have one ready to ship bugholes.com may. A 7 twist isn’t really standard but the 8 is likely in stock. Greg and Russ are good folks and get large shipments of barrels monthly.
 
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