I have 3 charts from hodgdon win and western powder hodgdon and win say re 25 is either 130 to 133 on burn chart and 1000 is 133 to 136 but western chart says re 25 is a slower burn than 1000 Can someone enlighten me with some other chart or just sound experience with this?
burn rate charts
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J E Custom
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Wedgy
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The way the IMR 7828 & 7828ssc is listed they look to have a different burn rate, but not according to IMR
"This magnum rifle powder has exactly the same burn speed as standard 7828 and uses the same data. However, due to the super short kernels, metering is virtually as good as a spherical powder. This allows up to 4% more powder space in the case and in many loads yields more velocity than standard 7828. Such loads are marked with an asterisk in the data to show where standard 7828 will not"
And no reloder 33
"This magnum rifle powder has exactly the same burn speed as standard 7828 and uses the same data. However, due to the super short kernels, metering is virtually as good as a spherical powder. This allows up to 4% more powder space in the case and in many loads yields more velocity than standard 7828. Such loads are marked with an asterisk in the data to show where standard 7828 will not"
And no reloder 33
Thanks J E, my question is now I have been testing re25 and h1000 and being carefull with same brand, weight,bullets , I had prettysticky bolt on 57.5 of re 25 and have went to 59grn of h 1000 and the bolt lifted as if there was no fired brass being ejected Is There that much difference in pressures between same burn rates? I think [ but wont ] add another grn of 1000 with no issues This has been a head scratcher for me by looking at my charts
Wedgy
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The Graf & Son's chart has rl25 faster than H1000
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/tech-resource/technicalResourceId/14/productId/162
or better yet an explanation of why the burn rates aren't really accurate
Why Burn Rate Is Meaningless
"Burn rate/Relative quickness does not tell use the physical shape of a powder, its composition, or the types of coatings. It cannot tell us whether a powder is single-based, double based, or triple based. It does not tell us the heat of explosion, the progressive / degressive gas creation values, the ignition characteristics, and so forth. There is no way to translate a double-based powder performance into a single-based powder performance level with any accuracy"
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/tech-resource/technicalResourceId/14/productId/162
or better yet an explanation of why the burn rates aren't really accurate
Why Burn Rate Is Meaningless
"Burn rate/Relative quickness does not tell use the physical shape of a powder, its composition, or the types of coatings. It cannot tell us whether a powder is single-based, double based, or triple based. It does not tell us the heat of explosion, the progressive / degressive gas creation values, the ignition characteristics, and so forth. There is no way to translate a double-based powder performance into a single-based powder performance level with any accuracy"
Yea WEDJY, that has always been my belief like I said two of my charts back that up but a couple more dont, But dont have a chart newer than 2013 but would explain the pressure at 57.5 of re25 and none at 59 of h1000. I'm always tinkering with other powders because my choices are getting hard to find again
just country
Well-Known Member
morning, I am comparing 3 burn rate charts. all 3 have different burn rates for the
mentioned powder.
my new chart has
IMR7828 of fastest of the group
RE25
H-1000
Ramshot Mag
Retumbo slower of the group
depending on the caliber, cartridge , bullet weight and primer the rate of ignition
can change quickly. this changes the ignition-expansion of the cartridge.
burn rate charts r a starting point for a recommended cartridge. I have a lot of reloading books referencing specific,
bullets, weight, design, BC, length, seating, primers and on and on. supply urself and read!!!!!
mentioned powder.
my new chart has
IMR7828 of fastest of the group
RE25
H-1000
Ramshot Mag
Retumbo slower of the group
depending on the caliber, cartridge , bullet weight and primer the rate of ignition
can change quickly. this changes the ignition-expansion of the cartridge.
burn rate charts r a starting point for a recommended cartridge. I have a lot of reloading books referencing specific,
bullets, weight, design, BC, length, seating, primers and on and on. supply urself and read!!!!!
Thanks Just Country all of my ladder tests except for one 2 weeks ago have used only fed 210 primer and I realize that using mag primers will spike pressure quicker and I hardly use the 215's any more but that list u posted is a better reference than I had Thank All of You Guy's You All Have Helped, Merry Christmas To All, and Always Remember The Reason Of The Season
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I don't think any powder has the same burn rate as another.
Burn rate charts are for locating the closest powder to the one you are/want to use and when switching to another powder you should always start lower than what you are using and work up.
just because a powder is the next one on the burn rate chart doesn't mean it is only slightly colder or hotter. There could be quite a gap between the two and it could be very close to a hotter powder
next on the list.
In other words the relationship is not linier.
you can use the next higher or lower powder on the list but you must go by the load data for that powder. You cant substitute one powder for another by weight.
J E CUSTOM
Yea J E , I agree with what you say, my favorite reload shop has virtually any powder but h1000 or 50 bmg, but I will visit him on saturday and look at some other possibilites , I'm not finding any info on imr 7977? if I remember this is the right stuff called also enduron?
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
When I went to IMR's and Hodgdon's websites simultaneously and went to their digital data centers. I selected 7mm STW and 180gr bullet weight, and did a side-by-side comparing the starting charge, velocity, and pressure with the max charge, velocity, and pressure of both 7977 and H1000. They appear to be ****-near identical, according to the manufacturers.
I just went to their site again and took a few screen shots of both 7977 and H1000. I didn't know what cartridge y'all were discussing, so I just used the 7mm STW and 180 grain bullets for simple comparison.
Don't want to assume anything but have you tried a query for "IMR 7977" using the custom query on the top right hand corner, i.e., ...
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/imr-4451-7977-enduron-powders-151344/
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/h1000-vs-rl33-vs-imr-7977-a-153671/
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/imr-7977-imr-4471-a-149927/
No Feenix, But I just researched what you had posted, If I had some testing on paper fir 168 bergers with 7977, or even re 33 to compare with the h 1000 might have me to make a 4 hour drive this morning, since all I can find now is re33 and 7977 witch is a long drive for maybe no gain or even not replacing my beloved 1000 I can get retumbo 2 hours away but have never used it I hate to break something just to try to repair it? Thank you Feenix this will more than likely put me on a waiting list for some time
