Boresight, Record Zero, and Verification of Zero

samtello

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This is an update to the thread on Boresight Question Research, that I posted last year Dec 14, 2017.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...r-help-participate.195390/page-4#post-1378464

Here is a clip

I am working on an App calling it Recordfire that will allow the user to boresight with their smartphone and sensors. The App has three parts, Boresight, Record Zero, and Verify Zero. It will work on a scoped rifle, tactical optics and hunting/sniping scopes. All parts are stored in relation to the rifle's chamber. It allows the user to do three things, bore scope in reference to the rifle chamber and store chamber location, record the sight setting after the rifle is zeroed and recall the sight setting and verify the setting using the rifle chamber. This means that you can check the zero any time you want or suspect that the sight setting has been disturbed.

Please give me some feedback as I think this has military application with combat optics
 
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samtello

Active Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
33
Location
College Park, GA
This is an update to the thread on Boresight Question Research, that I posted last year Dec 14, 2017.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...r-help-participate.195390/page-4#post-1378464

Here is a clip

I am working on an App calling it Recordfire that will allow the user to boresight with their smartphone and sensors. The App has three parts, Boresight, Record Zero, and Verify Zero. It will work on a scoped rifle, tactical optics and hunting/sniping scopes. All parts are stored in relation to the rifle's chamber. It allows the user to do three things, bore scope in reference to the rifle chamber and store chamber location, record the sight setting after the rifle is zeroed and recall the sight setting and verify the setting using the rifle chamber. This means that you can check the zero any time you want or suspect that the sight setting has been disturbed.

Please give me some feedback as I think this has military application with combat optics
The link is working
 

samtello

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The link is working
Price would be my first question?
Right now thinking of $85 to $95. The app will boresight along the line of bore when the scope crosshairs are moved to the intersection of the light of sight and the line of bore. This is all recorded to the rifle, scope, ammo, weather conditions, and the data can be broken down even further. Then you stowed the equipment and go zero. You should be very close to the actual zero of the rifle the only difference would be the effects of the conditions weather, rifle and ammo performance. Then you would go thru the same procedures and record your zero. You can recall whenever you want to verify the zero on that rifle. The difference between what we have now and RecordFire is the recorded data and the analysis that has not been done before.
 

WildRose

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I think I remember this discussion from last year.

I can see some definite utility here but the biggest benefit to using traditional boresights in my mind is that it saves a considerable amount of ammo and allows us to get very close to our true zero without even going to the range.

As I understand your concept we'd still have to shoot a 3 shot group, and your program then gives us a correction to zero the scope.

That doesn't save us a whole lot of shooting.

Of course a good boresighter can easily run 150.00-200.00 so there is some cost savings there for sure over the traditional route.

Unless every subsequent scope we mount is perfectly centered for both windage and elevation though the way my mind sees it we'd still have to do substantial corrections each time we swapped scopes.

Am I missing something here?
 

samtello

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I think I remember this discussion from last year.

I can see some definite utility here but the biggest benefit to using traditional boresights in my mind is that it saves a considerable amount of ammo and allows us to get very close to our true zero without even going to the range.

As I understand your concept we'd still have to shoot a 3 shot group, and your program then gives us a correction to zero the scope.

That doesn't save us a whole lot of shooting.

Of course a good boresighter can easily run 150.00-200.00 so there is some cost savings there for sure over the traditional route.

Unless every subsequent scope we mount is perfectly centered for both windage and elevation though the way my mind sees it we'd still have to do substantial corrections each time we swapped scopes.

Am I missing something here?
I appreciate your comments. I like the traditional method (TM) also and RecordFire (RF) is patterned as closely as possible to TM. The advantage of TM is no cost. When you pull the bolt using TM, the rifle must have a steady rest and the rifle requires you to sight through the bore at a target, and this is dependent on eyesight. RF will cost you $85 to $95 retail. The phone mount and the chamber insert once installed will record the boresight along the line of bore at whatever the distance the user specifies, it does not need a steady rest nor a target at a distance. Once the line of sight is determined by the app it can determine two other aspects, scope height, and cant. This is possible by the sensors in the smartphone. The app uses mathematical measurement and has self-checks that verify the procedures for boresight and recording zero. Zero can be recorded for different rifles using the same scope.
 

Gregg C

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Sounds pretty good. If I'm understanding correctly, RF can help mount scope with vertical thru bore centerline?
 

samtello

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Sounds pretty good. If I'm understanding correctly, RF can help mount scope with vertical thru bore centerline?
Hey Gregg,

That is correct, found that by accident, most of the apps that measure level use the accelerometer on the phone. So does RecordFire as we wanted to establish a vertical line to measure the scope height from the chamber to the center of the scope tube. When the app shows this on the phone screen you can see the movement from the vertical line. Now if you placed the rifle in a rest with a semi tighten scope you could set the scope on the vertical line and that would take care of cant much like the bubble levels currently available. Then you could move the scope within its mounts to align on the vertical line.
 

WildRose

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I appreciate your comments. I like the traditional method (TM) also and RecordFire (RF) is patterned as closely as possible to TM. The advantage of TM is no cost. When you pull the bolt using TM, the rifle must have a steady rest and the rifle requires you to sight through the bore at a target, and this is dependent on eyesight. RF will cost you $85 to $95 retail. The phone mount and the chamber insert once installed will record the boresight along the line of bore at whatever the distance the user specifies, it does not need a steady rest nor a target at a distance. Once the line of sight is determined by the app it can determine two other aspects, scope height, and cant. This is possible by the sensors in the smartphone. The app uses mathematical measurement and has self-checks that verify the procedures for boresight and recording zero. Zero can be recorded for different rifles using the same scope.
That's interesting. I hate the old fashioned way of looking through the bore because it's all but impossible to get right.

How does your program determine the exact alignment of the bore to the target? Are you shooting a picture through the bore to the target and then calculating based on scope position?
 

samtello

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That's interesting. I hate the old fashioned way of looking through the bore because it's all but impossible to get right.

How does your program determine the exact alignment of the bore to the target? Are you shooting a picture through the bore to the target and then calculating based on scope position?
The chamber insert that you see going into the chamber (on the clip) after you put the bolt back has a sensor that transmits its location to the phone and the uses the known scope tube diameter and the scope cross hairs to determine the line of sight. And yes it is like shooting a picture thru the bore with the chamber insert. The app knows that the line of sight runs parallel to the barrel (and the difference is the scope height) so to get the lines to intersect at the specified distance, the app shows a laminated dot that the scope crosshairs have to move to, to be boresighted.
 

WildRose

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The chamber insert that you see going into the chamber (on the clip) after you put the bolt back has a sensor that transmits its location to the phone and the uses the known scope tube diameter and the scope cross hairs to determine the line of sight. And yes it is like shooting a picture thru the bore with the chamber insert. The app knows that the line of sight runs parallel to the barrel (and the difference is the scope height) so to get the lines to intersect at the specified distance, the app shows a laminated dot that the scope crosshairs have to move to, to be boresighted.
Ahh, I didn't notice the insert, that explains it. Is this similar to the dummy cartridge lasers we see for sale? Would we require a different insert for each cartridge or will your's come with a chamber adapter to make them universal?

After looking at this thread I did some looking around at quality bore sighers like the SL-100 and SL-150's. What you'e developing accomplishes everything they do and more plus does it at considerably lower cost.
 

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