Blackhorn 209 cleaning question

[Larry Jones]

Anyone try different slugs to see if POI and POA line up better during first firings?

 

[sconnierider]

I'm a long time metallic re-loader but new to the inline game. It's tossed me a few challenges. I agree with Birddog93 in that my Optima V2 does like to be dry patched between rounds. I'll site in at camp and then dry patch and load for the hunt.
I tried Barnes 290 gr TMZ and didn't get the groups on the ladder I shot. (I weigh all my charges) . At a suggestion, I tried the Traditions 300GR SST and was shocked at my 82gr (by weight) group. I think I'll stop here!

FYI, BH reccomends cleaning with a traditional solvent based cleaner and not a water based type. Hoppes #9 is my choice.

 

[dave300]

I've shot a lot of BH from production rifles in the past. I've never had a rifle that would shoot to POA with a clean barrel. Most all my rifles required 2 rounds before the POI and POA became the same. There are a lot of concoctions people have came up with which they say will bring the first shot to all other shots, but I've yet to find anything that works, short of fouling the barrel. My normal practice was to swab any lubricants out, fire two primers only, then send two rounds into the berm on my range. After the second round, I loaded the rifle for hunting. I never knew rather my first hunting shot might be 35yds or 250yds, so it was necessary my POA and POI were identical. Unless the rifle was exposed to heavy rain, or a lot of moisture, it would remain loaded for up to two weeks. If I had any doubts with moisture, I'd fire the round and reload it.
Some rifles want to be swabbed between rounds, others you can shoot 50 rounds without swabbing between shots.
Although BH is less hydroscopic, it can still corrode. I've never had a problem with corrosion myself, but your mileage may vary. When in doubt, clean it out.

Well my arrowhead breech plug didn't make it in in time for a weekend attempt to learn this Rem Ultimate Muzzle Loader game, but I did want to ask your actual cleaning regiment.
When you clean your gun at the range, do you remove the breech plug or just use a damp patch and avoid any cleaning solution from running toward the BP?
I'm still vague on how to approach the first time at the range cleaning process as I begin to shoot and see what this Ultimate ML likes?
Luke did send me up 10 of his new bullets and 2 different sabots to try and a suggested charge by weight of BH209. But my questions still remain on how and when to clean when I do get to the range, and I see you had yours prove its most accurate after 2 fouling shots.
Currently, the weapon is squeaky clean, awaiting the Arrowhead BP upgrade and I have 10 bullets as a trial and I am looking to make the most of those ten and a cleaning regiment, if at all when I shoot those 10.
Alternate between shots with the two different sabots and note which did which is my best thought process?
Thanks and sorry for the multiple question post, but cleaning with the BP in seems a bit concerning?

 

[ENCORE]

Well my arrowhead breech plug didn't make it in in time for a weekend attempt to learn this Rem Ultimate Muzzle Loader game, but I did want to ask your actual cleaning regiment.
When you clean your gun at the range, do you remove the breech plug or just use a damp patch and avoid any cleaning solution from running toward the BP?
I'm still vague on how to approach the first time at the range cleaning process as I begin to shoot and see what this Ultimate ML likes?
Luke did send me up 10 of his new bullets and 2 different sabots to try and a suggested charge by weight of BH209. But my questions still remain on how and when to clean when I do get to the range, and I see you had yours prove its most accurate after 2 fouling shots.
Currently, the weapon is squeaky clean, awaiting the Arrowhead BP upgrade and I have 10 bullets as a trial and I am looking to make the most of those ten and a cleaning regiment, if at all when I shoot those 10.
Alternate between shots with the two different sabots and note which did which is my best thought process?
Thanks and sorry for the multiple question post, but cleaning with the BP in seems a bit concerning?

Been at an open house all day, visiting with family I haven't seen in years

I never clean my rifle at the range. That's done when I return home, before anything else. Now I believe you're talking about swabbing the barrel????
Many times when shooting BH, its a toss up as to rather the barrel needs to be swabbed between shots or not. Some rifles just shoot better swabbed between shots, where others actually will start grouping tighter without swabbing. Go figure! Its each individual rifle, charge and combination that determines rather to swab or not swab between shots.
Personally....……… I swab between shots. What I use to swab with is a 50/50 mixture of 91% isopropyl alcohol and Hoppes synthetic cleaner. Ever so slightly DAMP patch, in and out, then one dry patch in and out. Then load. But, you do not want a wet patch. Only slightly damp.

I don't know what bullet combination you'll be shooting, but if you're shooting the bullet/sabot combination Remington makes, good luck. If that's what you have to shoot, take each bullet out of the sabot and reinsert it. Pay attention to the notch in the sabot and line up the bullet base to the notch. The sabots should not stick to the bullet, or visa versa. I've seen where you could grab a sabot with a bullet right from the package and couldn't throw the bullet out of the sabot. That's not good.
My best accuracy with sabots has always been with a Harvester H5045LB and a 300gr Hornady SST. Yeah I know, it has a BC like a rock, but **** will they shoot.

Don't alternate anything but the charge when working up a load for tight groups. Remain with the same bullet/sabot and determine if it will group and at what charge. Then do the same with any other change in sabot or bullet combination.

DON'T CHASE YOUR SCOPE. What I mean by that is, when your shooting to determine the smallest possible group when developing a charge, don't start making scope adjustments. Shoot at the same identical spot and who cares if its an Xring? Every time you make an adjustment, retrieve the target and write on the target the information about what you used. It gives you a reference to what the charge/bullet/sabot is giving you. Once you determine the charge/sabot/bullet combination that works best, only then start moving the turrets to center on the Xring.

Bet I didn't answer everything I spent 8hrs on the road today and am pooped.

 

[DartonJager]

I am a HUGE fan of BH 209 and it is THE ONLY BP sub I use and that's coming from a guy who has used Pyrodex pellets to fire over 1500 (yes 1500) loads out of my .50 cal Encore, then I switched to 3F 777 and went trough over 5 lbs of it.

Then I tried BH 209 and after the very first 3-shots from my .50 cal Encore gave me a 100 yard group of under 1" and that was the norm. I then tried BH 209 in my .45 and .50 cal Knight Elite ML's and same result at or below 1.25" 100 yard 3-shot groups. The .45 cal elite is simply crazy accurate with 200 grain .40 cal Hornady SST's and Harvester sabots.

I did dry patch between shots and then without and there wasn't a big enough difference to bother.

I had bought my first jug of BH209 the same year it became available OTC. It did advertise it being NON-CORROSIVE. I left my Encore's barrel uncleaned for about 10 days before I got around to cleaning it. Imagine my disappointment when I found a very light coating of rust in multiple areas in my Encore's bore.

Bottom line BH 209 WILL CAUSE YOUR BARREL TO RUST.

Thankfully it cleaned up just fine. So my advice to you is clean your ML the same day after you're done shooting. I use my own home brew of Big Ed's Red (DIY Hopes) for a thorough cleaning, and action de-greaser on a patch for short term cleaning if hunting and I discharge my ML at the end of a unsuccessful hunt.

I have used Pyrodex pellets and 777 to take a combined 2000+ shots and after one trip to the range with BH 209, I sold or gave away all the pyrodex or 777 I had left and use only BH 209 now.

You can use any petroleum based bore cleaner like Hopes 69 and it will work as well as anything else to clean BH 209 residue from your barrel. Just make sure you clean residue from all the parts of your ML's barrel, breach and any other parts as it can and will result in rust. I would be especially cautious with a non-stainless ML.