Black Horn 209 and Bullets?

[Lonewolf74]

So I've never been real big into muzzleloader's, always had one but would just load er up with 777 pellets and Hornady sabot's. I could always hold a 2" group at a 100 and slightly bigger at 150. At 200 the wheels would come off so I just limited myself to 150 yards. More recently I've heard a lot of talk of Black Horn 209 giving better velocity and great accuracy. I came over hear to the muzzy section and realized there's a whole world I don't know with smokeless muzzleloader's, Hankins ignition, Pittman bullets and all kinds of stuff.

So I have several questions:

Has BH 209 always been so expensive? It's on average $70 for half a pound right now…is it really that good over 777?

What bullet would you guy's pair the 209 with in a standard inline 209 primer 50 cal muzzleloader? I'm looking at Furry bullets but want opinions?

Tell me some about these Smokeless Muzzleloader's and ignition systems. Would a guy gain anything with a Hankins breech setup if he still used BH 209 and not smokeless powder?

Finally how are some of these guy's getting so much velocity? Some claim +- 3000 fps with 300 grain bullets…that's out running my 338 Norma Improved!

Thanks in advance for any info guy's
Joshua

 

[cohunt]

Aa far as 209---when it first came out it was about $22/10oz...it has slowly gone up over the years until about 2 years ago--- it now comes in 8 oz bottles instead of 10 oz and like everything related to ammo-- it has gotten stupid expensive

As far as primers-- they recommend magnum primers--- I have always used federal 209m

I've always shot full bore bullets-- my rifle likes the federal bore-lok and Thor bullets.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

At the current price of BH209, $140/lb plus S&H, I'd look at any alternative if I wanted to actually shoot a muzzleloader with any frequency. If you just want something to hunt with then a BH209 set-up would be fine. Just my 2 cents.

For projectiles, I like the Barnes TMZ bullets in 250gr and 290gr.

 

[ENCORE]

The updated ignition systems with modules seal much better than 209 primers. So there's a benefit. I use the Arrowhead ignition system and shooting BH out of a custom is crazy accurate.

I'm shooting a low end charge of smokeless in my custom. It sends a 350gr Arrowhead XLD at 2,960fps.

Fury makes outstanding bullets.

 

[Reelamin]

So I have several questions:

Has BH 209 always been so expensive? It's on average $70 for half a pound right now…is it really that good over 777?

Yes, and no. It has always been much more than 3F. Sells for 43-50 for 10oz in our area. Is it better than 777....so subjective. For us it has been much better. Accuracy is better with less barrel maintenance and cleaning. You can shoot many shots with no swab between shots and bullet seating is the same. Slighty more FPS per equal load (-100fps). No affect from moisture leaving loaded in gun over 5-7 days. No moisture, corrossion after shooting and not cleaning immediately.

What bullet would you guy's pair the 209 with in a standard inline 209 primer 50 cal muzzleloader? I'm looking at Furry bullets but want opinions?

I have about 500 Fury bullets sitting on the shelf. (Not for sale) I could not get them to size down properly or consistently. I even purchased a knurler to help with same inconsistent diameter results. I gave up and went to a Sabot instead of spending another 150 on a new sizer. We have eight MZ's for out hunting group. The major majority have best accuracy with Barnes TEZ. Some with power belt, and a couple with XTP's. Just like any gun they are all different and the only way to find out is try them. Try HTH sabots....lots of different thickness and design. Primers we use Federal and Winchester. I have used Federal, Winchester, Chedite, with all the versions and ignition just fine. Fed and Win accuracy is the same. Majority shoot Fed because that is what they started with.

Tell me some about these Smokeless Muzzleloader's and ignition systems. Would a guy gain anything with a Hankins breech setup if he still used BH 209 and not smokeless powder?

BH209 is not a smokeless powder.

Finally how are some of these guy's getting so much velocity? Some claim +- 3000 fps with 300 grain bullets…that's out running my 338 Norma Improved!

NEVER HEARD OF THIS EVER WITH BH209. I can get 2200 with a 300gr and 130gr charge 26" in several rifles. (Please no comments I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions.)

Thanks in advance for any info guy's
Joshua

 

[Lonewolf74]

Thanks for the info so far guy's

Reelamin; the way I posted could of been confusing but my last two questions are actually regarding Smokeless Muzzleloader's and large rifle primer ignition instead of 209 primer's and black powder alternatives such as Black Horn 209.

 

[DartonJager]

Have used over 3 10oz jugs thus far. What can I say I LOVE to shoot and nothing shoots out of my inlines like BH209.
Here is what I use and it has given me consistent sub MOA accuracy.

First run Encore 209x50 Magnum ML blued Walnut
Bellum 0.001"oversized interference fit hinge pin
Free floated barrel
Post trigger job 3lb pull
84 grains by weight of BH209
Harvester Black Crushed Ribbed Sabot
One of the two fallowing bullets:
300 grain 0.458" Barnes Original SS (MINIMAL knurling)
325 grain 0.458" Hornady FTX (NO knurling)
Federal 209M magnum primer

Knight Elite 50 caliber ML SST/Laminated wood stock
Bolt conversion that eliminates red jacket that holds primers
Load #1
84 grains by weight of BH209
Harvester Black Crushed Ribbed Sabaot designed to be used with .458" diameter bullets
250 grain 0.458" Horandy MonoFlex bullet
300 grain Barnes 0.458" Original SS
Minimal knurling on both
Federal 209M magnum primer
Load #2
80 Grains by weight BH209
Harvester Smooth Black sabots designed to be used with .451-.452" diameter bullets
300 grain Horandy XTP with heavy as possible knurl on entire bullet baring surface
Federal 209M magnum primer

Knight Elite 45 caliber ML SST/Laminated wood stock
Bolt conversion that eliminates red jacket that holds primers
80 grains by weight BH209
195 0.401" grain Barnes Expander MZ
180 grain 0.400" Hornady XTP
Heavy as possible knurl on both
Harvester Blue sabot for 0.400-0.401" diameter bullets
I can not overstate how unbelievable much more consistently accurate my inlines are using BH209 VS Pyrodex pellets or 3F-777.