Blackhorn 209

Dean2

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A bit off topic but does one need a special breachplug to use BH 209?
I shoot a CVA inline with a standard plug.
You need to be able to use 209 shotgun primers to reliably touch off the poweder that is why it is called Black Horn 209. Outside of that, you are good to go.
 

Pulpwood

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When shooting BH in any past Encore platform, my "go to" bullets.... Barnes.

Once I started shooting bullet to bore......... Fury

Sorry Ragged Edge, but I beg to differ.
Encore, I have shot 777 with sabots in the past I think I would eventually like to go with a smokeless barrel . But for now I was thinking about trying bh209 with full bore sized bullets , what would you recommend that I start with having a stock barrel today. Planning a Nebraska hunt in December
 

Dean2

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Yes there are different breech plugs for the Blackhorn. CVA recommends changing because it allows the powder to sit closer to the primer.

You are partly correct, all of the CVA breech plugs designed to shoot the 209 primer will work for the Blachorn 209 and other loose powders. What doesn't work well at all is the breech plug designed for musket caps. CVA does have a breech plug specifically designed for 209 powder and it does provide some advantages but the regular 209 breech plug works just fine too. There is always a better mouse trap being offered, it is a great way to make more money and marketing is all about convincing us the 6.5 Creed is hugely better than the 6.5x55 that has done the job for 120 years. Unless I was having issues with the existing 209 breach plug I would not switch it out.
 
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RAGGED EDGE

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When shooting BH in any past Encore platform, my "go to" bullets.... Barnes.

Once I started shooting bullet to bore......... Fury

Sorry Ragged Edge, but I beg to differ.
At least for now this is a mostly free country. You have your opinion; I have mine. I do agree with your bullet choices.
 

Don Titus

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You need to be able to use 209 shotgun primers to reliably touch off the poweder that is why it is called Black Horn 209. Outside of that, you are good to go.
I have read where BH 209 when used in the REM 700 Ultimate can cause gas cuts in the breech plug and the primer unit after as few as 25 shots. My Ultimate shoots great with pellets, but I want to use BH 209 and Parker Match Hunters for a trophy elk hunt in 2021 in NM. In your opinion should I invest $155 for an Arrowhead breech plug (custom fit for exact head spacing) or maybe just install a new Remington breech plug ($45) when I detect gas cutting with BH 209?
 

Dean2

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I have read where BH 209 when used in the REM 700 Ultimate can cause gas cuts in the breech plug and the primer unit after as few as 25 shots. My Ultimate shoots great with pellets, but I want to use BH 209 and Parker Match Hunters for a trophy elk hunt in 2021 in NM. In your opinion should I invest $155 for an Arrowhead breech plug (custom fit for exact head spacing) or maybe just install a new Remington breech plug ($45) when I detect gas cutting with BH 209?
I have never used a Rem with BH 209 powder and I had never heard of the breech blocks getting gas cut using loose powder. If it was me I would do a bunch of shooting and see if it is true. Somehow it doesn't make very good sense to me. I can't see why loose powder would gas cut more than pellets. If it does gas cut, you have to decide if the loose powder is giving you enough extra velocity and accuracy to be worth it. If it does I would then go to the aftermarket plug since u need a new one anyhow. Like so many things, I tend to not believe much until I have seen it for myself. So much of what shows up on the internet is 5000 guys endlessly repeating something they read but have never tried or seen personally. Makes it seem true just because so many guys are saying it.
 

Don Titus

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I have never used a Rem with BH 209 powder and I had never heard of the breech blocks getting gas cut using loose powder. If it was me I would do a bunch of shooting and see if it is true. Somehow it doesn't make very good sense to me. I can't see why loose powder would gas cut more than pellets. If it does gas cut, you have to decide if the loose powder is giving you enough extra velocity and accuracy to be worth it. If it does I would then go to the aftermarket plug since u need a new one anyhow. Like so many things, I tend to not believe much until I have seen it for myself. So much of what shows up on the internet is 5000 guys endlessly repeating something they read but have never tried or seen personally. Makes it seem true just because so many guys are saying it.
Remington explicitly states not to use BH 209 for the reason cited...I have seen pics of both the damaged primer module and the damaged plug...That said, I’m in agreement with you ...going to try it and check it as I go...
 

Dean2

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Remington explicitly states not to use BH 209 for the reason cited...I have seen pics of both the damaged primer module and the damaged plug...That said, I’m in agreement with you ...going to try it and check it as I go...
Let us know how it goes. I would be very interested to know if gas cutting really happens and how many shots it takes.

Just for interest I have a buddy that makes ladders. One of the warnings on them is to not set them up in manure and that manure becomes slipperier the hotter it gets outside. He actually lost a court case over some idiot that setup the ladder with the bottom feet in a manure pile. Part of the judgement is the need to put that warning on his ladders. Average ladder costs him 50 bucks to make, covering the legal costs and insurance is $400 per ladder. Tell me how stupid that is.
 

ENCORE

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I have read where BH 209 when used in the REM 700 Ultimate can cause gas cuts in the breech plug and the primer unit after as few as 25 shots. My Ultimate shoots great with pellets, but I want to use BH 209 and Parker Match Hunters for a trophy elk hunt in 2021 in NM. In your opinion should I invest $155 for an Arrowhead breech plug (custom fit for exact head spacing) or maybe just install a new Remington breech plug ($45) when I detect gas cutting with BH 209?
First let me just say that I'm personal friends with the man that invented and created that ignition system, Ken Johnston at Ultimate Firearms Inc. Remington purchased the rights to use the ignition system from Ken. I know the rifles well.

I've replaced 4 breech plugs, all from being gas cut nipples and yes they will gas cut. Once they gas cut, you're done until you get a replacement. But then of course, you still have to deal with PP head space and even worse, PP primer carriers. That brass that Remington pawns off can have a head thickness that varies up to .020" and I can assure you, there's no way to properly seal that brass on that nipple with that kind of brass.
Remington tried to harden up the breech plug nipple to help, but they still will end up gas cutting, rather using the recommended propellants, and especially BH209. Its not if, but when. BH209 was never approved by Remington, nor was it listed in the owner's manual.

Without question or hesitation, if you plan on shooting BH209 from your RUM purchase the Arrowhead system. Why on earth would you replace a primitive breech plug with another primitive breech plug and go through the same process over and over? You do know that they say that is the definition of insanity :)

Dad (R.I.P.) always used to say: "If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, where will you get the money and time to have to do it over?"

The Arrowhead ignition system will give you a lifetime of proper ignition and without any leaking or gas cutting. You can shoot all the BH209 you want to shoot and never worry about gas cutting, or having the ignition system fail on you while on a hunt of a lifetime. THAT my friend, makes the Arrowhead ignition system priceless in itself!
DO IT!
 

Dean2

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First let me just say that I'm personal friends with the man that invented and created that ignition system, Ken Johnston at Ultimate Firearms Inc. Remington purchased the rights to use the ignition system from Ken. I know the rifles well.

I've replaced 4 breech plugs, all from being gas cut nipples and yes they will gas cut. Once they gas cut, you're done until you get a replacement. But then of course, you still have to deal with PP head space and even worse, PP primer carriers. That brass that Remington pawns off can have a head thickness that varies up to .020" and I can assure you, there's no way to properly seal that brass on that nipple with that kind of brass.
Remington tried to harden up the breech plug nipple to help, but they still will end up gas cutting, rather using the recommended propellants, and especially BH209. Its not if, but when. BH209 was never approved by Remington, nor was it listed in the owner's manual.

Without question or hesitation, if you plan on shooting BH209 from your RUM purchase the Arrowhead system. Why on earth would you replace a primitive breech plug with another primitive breech plug and go through the same process over and over? You do know that they say that is the definition of insanity :)

Dad (R.I.P.) always used to say: "If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, where will you get the money and time to have to do it over?"

The Arrowhead ignition system will give you a lifetime of proper ignition and without any leaking or gas cutting. You can shoot all the BH209 you want to shoot and never worry about gas cutting, or having the ignition system fail on you while on a hunt of a lifetime. THAT my friend, makes the Arrowhead ignition system priceless in itself!
DO IT!
That is very interesting info. So if IOI read you right, the Rems gas cut no matter what you use, just the BH 209 makes it worse. I guess I never shot the Rems I had enough to see the gas cutting before I sold them along

HW, I have shot them all, of the subs BH 209 is far and away the best for many reasons. Now I also shoot a lot of Flint Locks so real BP is the only good choice in them but in the modern inlines BH wins hands down.
 

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