Barrels for Barrel burning Cartridges

[Sargesniper]

I have been wondering for a few years now on the possibility of creating a barrel out of ceramic material. Seems like it would eliminate the erosion caused by the hot gases generated by some cartridges today. I am not sure but I think the Gov't. played around with this idea some years back.
I never heard any more about it since.

Just think, never have to re-barrel or at least for quite some time. I have no idea how it could be done or if it can be done. May not hold up under pressure. Still, it is interesting to ponder the idea.

What are your thoughts?

 

[J E Custom]

There have been many different methods tried that would/should improve barrel life. Chrome lined,
QpQ, Nitride and others and even barrel material changes. the cost normally out weighs the improvement seen. the other issue with coatings is if they are hard enough to protect the bore, little if any machining can be done after the coating is applied.

There are many things that can cause throat/bore erosion and no way to eliminate it yet (Maybe someday) typically a well made barrel that is uncoated will have the best accuracy, the coted/treated barrel will have the longer life. So one has to decide on accuracy or longevity.

Chrome lined barrels are the most common, (Most military rifles are chrome lined for best ware
under extreme conditions) but as we all know they are for the most part not as accurate as un lined barrels because they don't have to be and life is more important.

It would be great if someone would come up with a process that could do both (Accuracy and longevity) Maybe one day.

The only thing that I know of that can extend barrel life without sacrificing accuracy Is care.

Hold that though thought (It would be nice)

J E CUSTOM

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

I have the answer... Just don:'t buy any rifle chambered for one of these cartridges! Sacrifice the 100-200 fps to be able to keep that barrel on your rifle a lot longer. You have the ability to make the right decision, it's just like the old Zep song says, "all that glitters is not gold"... Easy enough..

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I have the answer... Just don:'t buy any rifle chambered for one of these cartridges! Sacrifice the 100-200 fps to be able to keep that barrel on your rifle a lot longer. You have the ability to make the right decision, it's just like the old Zep song says, "all that glitters is not gold"... Easy enough..

That's a fine idea.

No wait, strike that, consider the barrel a consumable. Do your calculations on the costs of each round fired with replacing the barrel in mind.

223 and 308 are very low on the barrel burner scale. Barrels can last 2500 to 40,000 rounds (military style chrome lined). Cost of the barrel life per round fired $0.001?

Barrel cost of a 6.5/300Wby, 26 Nosler, 7STW, 7RUM can be $1.00 per round. I prefer to look at it that way.

What will be the barrel cost of my 50 Euro/DTC? A round will be in the $5 and up range. Adding another $1.00 to that is not an issue.

I am considering labeling a bunch of coffee cans for each barrel. Put the money for the barrel in the can when I make up loads. A realistic approach to saving up for barrels.

 

[Prieto9000]

I´ve been playing around with qpq treated barrels for since last year and 2 out of 3 have performed perfectly in the accuracy side. The 3rd one was not as accurate but it still gives me a lot of extra MV.

Here´s what I´ve seen:

1st Rifle:
7mm rem Mag built on a 700 blue printed action with a 26" Bartlein 1:9 Barrel.
When all the machining of the rifle was finished I disassembled it and sent it to the qpq bath. Then reassembled it and headspace changed by .004", changed the Recoil lug for a .002" thicker one and problem solved.
On the performance side it was awesome Super Accurate, around .25MOA and it was around 150fps faster than another rifle built the same, just non qpq treated. Load was exactly the same. Same brass, same powder, same charge, same primer and same bullet.

2nd Rifle:
.338 Lapua Mag built on a 700 Action and a 26" Bartlein 1:9.3" Barrel
After all the machining was finished the rifle was disassembled and sent to the qpq bath hoping to get different results than previous time. On this occasion, the barrel fitted perfectly, the headspace was spot-on, bbbuuuuuutttttttt... the brake got misaligned just a little bit, it was very hard to notice, but it was there.
On the performance side, it also worked like a charm it was super accurate, sub ½ MOA consistently from the beginning, and MV was awesome it gave 2860 fps using 92gr of H1000. Considering I get 2872fps out of my .338 EDGE using a 30" barrel and 95gr of retumbo, I believe it´s pretty impressive.

3rd Rifle:
6.5 Creedmoor on a Tikka T3 Action and 18.5" Benchmark 1:8"
Trying to avoid previous faults seen on the past 2 rifles we decided to do something different. This time we did all the machining on the rifle and the Action, Torqued everything that needed to be torqued and sent the barreled action to the bath. It looks perfect, everything is perfectly aligned bbbuuuutttttttt... And here´s the bad one, I´m only getting 0.5 to 0.75 MOA out of this rifle. It´s fine, it works, it gets the bullets on target most of the time, but I´m used to more accuracy than this, all my rifles shoot far better than this. On the bright side, i´m getting 2739fps with the 143gr ELD-X and 2972fps with the 123 SST. It´s still a decent 800-900yd deer rifle.
I can't speak about barrel wear yet, They haven´t been shot a lot, but it does increase MV by about 150fps at least.

 

[Rich Coyle]

tag

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

My new rules for myself have been in effect for a year and a half now...Brass Availability... nothing else! If I can't walk out the door with new brass in hand, I hain't buying, whether off the shelfers or from a custom gunsmith, simple enough...my life has become much easier.. Sold all my rifles that caused me pain, cleaned off the bench of only a few powders, 3 total for everything from 22/250 -.338wm and life has become simple...all headaches are gone and that includes some insane wildcats.. And to all you who have been driven by this constant brass issue, that's the cure !!

 

[Canadian Bushman]

I contacted krieger a while back about cutting a barrel out of MP-35N for me. They said no way they would touch that stuff with their tools. Not to mention at the time a 1.25" x 30" blank would run you around $1000.00.

718 inconel would be another mat'l that would almost certainly double barrel life, but it will quadruple cost.

Best option is like jfseaman said, burn em up and replace em.

 

[engineer40]

I'm not a gunsmith so when I recently decided I wanted a cartridge that is known to be a barrel burner, I made sure it was on a rifle platform that used a barrel nut. Lots of great options out there now that use the barrel nut system and you can replace the barrels at home. You can even convert Remington's to use a Rem/Age barrel nut too.

If you've never done it, the process is easier than you probably think.

 

[J E Custom]

That's a fine idea.

No wait, strike that, consider the barrel a consumable. Do your calculations on the costs of each round fired with replacing the barrel in mind.

223 and 308 are very low on the barrel burner scale. Barrels can last 2500 to 40,000 rounds (military style chrome lined). Cost of the barrel life per round fired $0.001?

Barrel cost of a 6.5/300Wby, 26 Nosler, 7STW, 7RUM can be $1.00 per round. I prefer to look at it that way.

What will be the barrel cost of my 50 Euro/DTC? A round will be in the $5 and up range. Adding another $1.00 to that is not an issue.

I am considering labeling a bunch of coffee cans for each barrel. Put the money for the barrel in the can when I make up loads. A realistic approach to saving up for barrels.

I have never considered a barrel as a consumable, but it is a good idea. I am my own worst enemy
and stray from the mild cartridges that don't eat up barrels because like others I like to know the limits and benefits of a cartridge and do a bit of experimenting. I realize that barrel life will suffer but
except that as a downside and something I have to live with.

I don't, however believe in excessive pressure to get what velocity I am targeting, so I guess I consider the barrel a consumable (Hadn't though of it that way before). also By not loading excessive pressures I get good brass life and don't work the action hard.

The fastest I ever shot out a barrel was around 600 rounds (My fault for the velocity I was trying to achieve and still maintain good accuracy. This was the last rifle that I ever expected more than it was capable of from it and decided to change my philosophy.

Being able to re barrel my own rifles, I do have a different outlook than someone that has to rely on
someone else to replace there barrel.

Interesting

J E CUSTOM

 

[shortgrass]

Melonite/Black Nitride after all the machine work is complete. Controlled Thermal Technologies is a reasonably priced treater. Great care needs to be taken cleaning the residue away after treatment or accuracy can suffer. Proper handling of the barrel before and after treatment is required for best results. If the process had negative effects, no BR shooter would even think about it. Several of those BR shooters swear by it. I've had many of my "high intensity" chamberings treated wiyhout any ill effects. 6.5mm X 284, 6mm AI, .300 Win Mag, 257 Rob. AI, 280 AI, 6mm X 45, both of my custom 223 Wylde barrels on AR15s, and I'll have the 223 Wylde barrel for my Rem Model 7 treated too, when I have it ready. I had the custom Krieger I fit to my M1A and the SS Wilson barrel that's fit to one of my Garands treated, too.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Melonite/Black Nitride after all the machine work is complete. Controlled Thermal Technologies is a reasonably priced treater. Great care needs to be taken cleaning the residue away after treatment or accuracy can suffer. Proper handling of the barrel before and after treatment is required for best results. If the process had negative effects, no BR shooter would even think about it. Several of those BR shooters swear by it. I've had many of my "high intensity" chamberings treated wiyhout any ill effects. 6.5mm X 284, 6mm AI, .300 Win Mag, 257 Rob. AI, 280 AI, 6mm X 45, both of my custom 223 Wylde barrels on AR15s, and I'll have the 223 Wylde barrel for my Rem Model 7 treated too, when I have it ready. I had the custom Krieger I fit to my M1A and the SS Wilson barrel that's fit to one of my Garands treated, too.

Have you worn out a nitride treated barrel? Can you give us an example of the difference in life we could expect from having a barrel treated?

 

[Bucks4me2]

"Great care needs to be taken cleaning the residue away after treatment or accuracy can suffer. Proper handling of the barrel before and after treatment is required for best results"

Shortgrass, can you please explain the cleaning process for after the melonite treatment. I have a new rifle that the barrel was treated, but I have not fire the rifle, just got it. Thank you

 

[engineer40]

Melonite/Black Nitride after all the machine work is complete. Controlled Thermal Technologies is a reasonably priced treater. Great care needs to be taken cleaning the residue away after treatment or accuracy can suffer. Proper handling of the barrel before and after treatment is required for best results. If the process had negative effects, no BR shooter would even think about it. Several of those BR shooters swear by it. I've had many of my "high intensity" chamberings treated wiyhout any ill effects. 6.5mm X 284, 6mm AI, .300 Win Mag, 257 Rob. AI, 280 AI, 6mm X 45, both of my custom 223 Wylde barrels on AR15s, and I'll have the 223 Wylde barrel for my Rem Model 7 treated too, when I have it ready. I had the custom Krieger I fit to my M1A and the SS Wilson barrel that's fit to one of my Garands treated, too.

Have you worn out a nitride treated barrel? Can you give us an example of the difference in life we could expect from having a barrel treated?

Shortgrass, I also am very interested in hearing more about your experiences with Melonite/Black Nitride. You obviously believe in the process and think it's worth the time and money to have it done. Thanks!