Badlands Precision Bullets thread - From BC to terminal ballistics

[Northkill]

What Northkill meant was, while the killed well, they caused significant damage in his experience. He shot, a deer I think? With the 7 Allen magnum, at a relatively close range, if I recall correctly. Please @Northkill, correct me if wrong. It's in this thread I think, just a ways back.

Yes, 1 @ 85 yd, 1 @ 300 yd & 2 at 400 yd to date. All were full broad side impacts in the lung/heart area - no shoulder or bone hits other than possibly a rib. All had dislocated front shoulders and an internal mess with a good bit of bloodshot meat. The 300 yd impact had a very small exit straight through but a larger exit right out of the brisket - 90 deg from impact angle. It took 15 to 20 min for the animal to expire - (as long as it took for me to get to it). Just too much velocity for the construction of the projo. I think they shine under 3k. That's just been my experience. the 7 Allen is a real bullet killer though.

 

[FEENIX]

Because of the speed there is an explosive effect simply because of the large kinetic energy transfer.

I think BC is under appreciated. It is fundamental to bullet performance, especially hunting bullets. It determines how quickly a bullet sheds its energy after it leaves the muzzle, and thus determines the effective range of an expanding bullet.

Agreed! There are folks out there that do not believe in KE transfer or high BC. Some use lighter bullets and push them harder to compensate with KE and low BC. Both KE and high BC (along with other attributes, i.e., bullet design/construction, etc.) are essential considerations in LRH, but that's just "me."

 

[Northkill]

That is interesting, I did not know these were suspect on terminal performance at hi impact velocity?

Suspect wouldn't be my word for it. Just a matter of mixed results. We haven't lost an animal. Its more that it didn't kill as quickly as I would have assumed for such firepower and internal damage. This past year the 2 deer we hit with it took longer to expire than the ones hit with 180 Hybrids and 135 Classic Hunters and 124 HH's. My personal theory is that the tip & hollow-point design initiates expansion very quickly on impact (which is super for lower velocity impacts) but at extreme velocities the terminal path & result becomes less predictable since the petals aren't necessarily designed to shed. We found this in gel. And the design or composition of the shank definitely affects its terminal effectiveness once it does shed petals.

For long range performance and "normal" velocity applications, I'm sure it's great. It's what it was designed to do.

 

[nralifer]

Agreed! There are folks out there that do not believe in KE transfer or high BC. Some use lighter bullets and push them harder to compensate with KE and low BC. Both KE and high BC (along with other attributes, i.e., bullet design/construction, etc.) are essential considerations in LRH, but that's just "me."

You are correct. Even the material that the bullet is made out of plays a role. Hunting bullets are much more sophisticated than simple long range target bullets. That is because once they hit they have to behave in specific and reliable ways. A simple target bullet needs to do nothing but hit steel or punch a hole in paper. Making hunting bullets capable of doing what target bullets do AND expand reliably, penetrate deeply in a straight line, and retain as much weight as possible over a wide range of distances and impact velocities is not a trivial thing.

 

[nralifer]

Yes, 1 @ 85 yd, 1 @ 300 yd & 2 at 400 yd to date. All were full broad side impacts in the lung/heart area - no shoulder or bone hits other than possibly a rib. All had dislocated front shoulders and an internal mess with a good bit of bloodshot meat. The 300 yd impact had a very small exit straight through but a larger exit right out of the brisket - 90 deg from impact angle. It took 15 to 20 min for the animal to expire - (as long as it took for me to get to it). Just too much velocity for the construction of the projo. I think they shine under 3k. That's just been my experience. the 7 Allen is a real bullet killer though.

Wow! There is a litany of weirdness. I agree with you completely

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

@Northkill if you go back to my post on page 54 I had a similar experience on an elk at 250 yards with my SAUM. Good impact location but only got one lung. I assumed it was me not picking up on a slight quarter towards me at last light, but I didn't consider partial pedal shedding causing a weird wound track. I distinctly remember it being a straight broadside shot, so "curved" bullet track makes things make more sense. But who knows, I didn't get video of the shot unfortunately.

Overall I think I'll still stick with them for now, because I have yet to find another bullet that combines acceptable BC's, accuracy, solid construction, and reliable expansion. I'm still not sold on Berger type bullets for hunting large game like elk.

 

[nralifer]

Suspect wouldn't be my word for it. Just a matter of mixed results. We haven't lost an animal. Its more that it didn't kill as quickly as I would have assumed for such firepower and internal damage. This past year the 2 deer we hit with it took longer to expire than the ones hit with 180 Hybrids and 135 Classic Hunters and 124 HH's. My personal theory is that the tip & hollow-point design initiates expansion very quickly on impact (which is super for lower velocity impacts) but at extreme velocities the terminal path & result becomes less predictable since the petals aren't necessarily designed to shed. We found this in gel. And the design or composition of the shank definitely affects its terminal effectiveness once it does shed petals.

For long range performance and "normal" velocity applications, I'm sure it's great. It's what it was designed to do.

At what speeds were you driving the bullets? Excessive speed is not necessary to achieve quick long range kills. 2850-3100 fps is more than enough to get quick kills at ranges out to 800-1000 yds.

 

[codyadams]

At what speeds were you driving the bullets? Excessive speed is not necessary to achieve quick long range kills. 2850-3100 fps is more than enough to get quick kills at ranges out to 800-1000 yds.

No, but excessive speeds can and do lead to less drop and less drift! Ha ha

 

[Northkill]

At what speeds were you driving the bullets? Excessive speed is not necessary to achieve quick long range kills. 2850-3100 fps is more than enough to get quick kills at ranges out to 800-1000 yds.

That's kinda been my point. We are pushing them near 3,700 fps. A 7 Allen Mag is all about speed.

 

[JAYgs8163]

That's kinda been my point. We are pushing them near 3,700 fps. A 7 Allen Mag is all about speed.

Guess you just need to let them get further away before you squeeze one off.

 

[nralifer]

That's kinda been my point. We are pushing them near 3,700 fps. A 7 Allen Mag is all about speed.

Well, materials can only withstand a certain amount of stress and at extreme speeds materials and targets will behave in unforeseen ways. In any type of engineering there is a certain optimal performance envelope for any device. You exceed that envelope expect weirdness to happen. Most shooters are very focussed on speed because it is readily measured.

 

[Northkill]

Well, materials can only withstand a certain amount of stress and at extreme speeds materials and targets will behave in unforeseen ways. In any type of engineering there is a certain optimal performance envelope for any device. You exceed that envelope expect weirdness to happen. Most shooters are very focussed on speed because it is readily measured.

Yeah, I sure get all that. I'm not saying there's something wrong with your projos. I'm working them outside their design parameters and funny stuff happens - that's the only point I'm making. It's the same reason I'm not running C&C in that cannon though I wouldn't be too scared of its 195 EOL load at 3,300 for the longer ranges either. Just never took game with that combo yet. I like the lightning speed and incredible trajectory I was getting with the BD-2 at 3,670 fps. Punch it in your calculator and be amazed.

 

[Northkill]

Guess you just need to let them get further away before you squeeze one off.

Next time it's "run, Bambi, run!" - until it's about to disappear into the sunset, then send the hypersonic pill out of the 7 Allen howitzer... I'm on it, bud.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Next time it's "run, Bambi, run!" - until it's about to disappear into the sunset, then send the hypersonic pill out of the 7 Allen howitzer... I'm on it, bud.

I've been testing the 7mm 150 Bulldozer and am around 3100-3200 in my 7WSM. Still need to do more work and testing of powders. RL23 has best accuracy to date.