Apprenticeships?

[Hairtrigger]

Competitors all are willing to pay top dollar to have a winning gunsmith work on thier gear.
If you do your oun work and compete with them and beat them they will line up waiting for your majic

 

[japple]

Competitors all are willing to pay top dollar to have a winning gunsmith work on thier gear.
If you do your oun work and compete with them and beat them they will line up waiting for your majic

Competitive archers are the same way. They will pay 100s of dollars for that extra point or extra x!

 

[shortgrass]

Competitors all are willing to pay top dollar to have a winning gunsmith work on thier gear.
If you do your oun work and compete with them and beat them they will line up waiting for your majic

Getting to that point(where they line up) is the work.

 

[japple]

Ted you are 100% right about that. But every business is like that. It takes years to develop a established and loyal clientel! customer service, attention to detail and knowledge are the only things business men can offer anymore!

 

[Chas1]

japple as you said "customer service, attention to detail and knowledge"

While much of society shops price it is no wonder that in so many businesses customer service, attention to details/knowledge are a joke. Try getting customer service at Walmart, Home Depot...cheap yes and that's about it.

But, there is a part of society that doesn't shop price but service and quality first. So you are correct...deliver impeccable service, keep your word at all cost, deliver quality, pay attention to detail and you will eventually have a thriving business. Best of luck as you proceed.

 

[japple]

Chas,

you hit the nail on the head. After working in a one owner local proshop for 4 years, what I have learned is that we cannot compete with a cabelas or bass pro shops etc on price. But expertise cannot be found for the most part in stores like that, nor can one on one service. People want to see the same face over and over again and know the person they are speaking with. When I went to work at the proshop it was a 90,000 dollar a year store (gross). I went to work there right after some new owners purchased it. We (the new owners and I changed everything! Added more expertise more product, shooting lessons, clinics and many other things. We charged more but offered much better service and skills to the store. As of right now that store (I left last october) is at 150,000 half way through the year.

There will always be the few that are price shopping above all else, but these are not the people that go to gunsmiths or frequent proshopsof anykind. Integrity and honesty, attention to detail, and knowledge are what keep local business (especially in the sporting good industry) alive.

 

[shortgrass]

Yep,,, thats the only way I know how to do it. But back to OP,,, Getting the best training you can goes hand in hand with the principles that have been outlined. If I go to a business and the service & knowlege of the product sucks or sounds like BS, I probobly won't return. If a business like you described is your plan, I don't think I'd learn a little bit from this 'smith and some from that book, I'd get some 'real' training. But on the other hand, you'll be too busy running the business to do much 'smithing, there are only 24 hours in a day.

 

[Chas1]

Well said japple. There's a niche for the kind of service, quality etc that folks...many right here on LRH are willing to pay for. Heck alot of folks here are willing to pay 4,5,6,$7000 and up for custom rigs + 1000's of dollars on reloading equipmen, accesories, rangfinders, scopes...why because quality, service, knowledge and they (vendor) keeps their word. look at the stockmakers and gunsmiths names that come up here all the time...that why. If you emulate them, I have no doubt you'll be a winner.

 

[bigngreen]

In my area, which is the size of some states, you can't get an arrow re-fletched, period. The one shop that did my last arrow basically goobered glue in the general area and pushed a few vanes on it, they didn't clean up the shaft at all, it looked like someone blew their nose on it. I was in there the other day and I over heard the archery pro tell a costomer that they don't fletch arrow but they would hand you the cheesy jig and some glue and you could do it in the parking lot This is one of those place that are alway on the radio promoting buy local be local, I wear out two hoochie mama calls a year so I went in to get one, 32 dollars, ten dollars more than the local Co-op has them for in the same stinking town.
Great service with no smoke blowing and no raping and a guy will have to turn buisness away! This is why I'm just doing it myself, I'm working on my FFL right now so then I have no reason to do any buisness with those clowns!

Good luck man!!

 

[japple]

BignGreen,

What you experienced is unfortunetely how many archery shops are. Especially in areas without competition. Those are the types of stores that allowed the big box stores to get a hold on the market. When I started that was the types of stores in our area as well. I did similar to what you are doing and began to do everything myself. I learned much on my own through tinkering and then learned much from traveling to tournaments and meeting some very helpful pros. There is no reason other than lack of competition that a store like that can stay in business!

If I can take what I have learned from the archery industry and expand it to include precision rifles I know I will have a winner! As well as knowledge from learning machining skills to have the know how to make and improve the tools for both trades. I have plans drawn up to build a string making jig as well as an automatic serving tool, but without the machining knowledge I can't make it happen!

Enough of a rant on poor business practices and my getting rich schemes. thanks for the well wishes and advice guys!
John

 

[Coyboy]

Japple, the best way to get your feet wet may be to take a local tech school machining program, run the first semester, if the school still starts with manual machines. Many start right out with cnc these days. This will allow you to not move the familly. Then take some summer nra courses at Trinidad, what you learned at tech will put you ahead of the curve because so much of the skills from tech school will be used in GS classes.

Then you can determine your skill, and invest in more education based on your profiecency at the chosen task.

If your looking at doing general repair work in your buisness, then skip the tech go to nra summer courses and buy many of the repair and takedown books available. Then start doing it, trial by fire. Always a good learning experience.

 

[shortgrass]

Yes, a little machining back ground wouldn't hurt.I had 11 1/2 yrs. of job shop machining and tool room experiance before I went to school. I've had to go to appointments only at my shop, just to be able to get the custom work and the few repairs I do done in a timely manner. If the customer has a problem or idea for some custom work its best to talk about it or exchange a few e-mails first, savers time on both sides that way. Somebody's got to have time to do the work! And, back to the title of this thread, "Apprenticeships". I've visited with Jack Rowe 2 or 3 times, bought some AyA parts for a repair from him. Jack is in his mid 80's. He was born an Englishman. As a young man he apprenticed in London at a couple of famous double gun makers. After 10 years he was still considered an apprentice. Had worked for 15 yrs. in the trade before building his first complete shotgun. Talk about a long term plan!

 

[Chas1]

And I thought it took a long time to become a doctor. 10 years that's a long time to be an apprentice.

 

[shortgrass]

And I thought it took a long time to become a doctor. 10 years that's a long time to be an apprentice.

That's the way apprenticeships worked back in Jacks day and why they rarely exist today. Those English made doubles were hand fitted, not made on CNC machines. The AyA, made in Spain, is still made that way today. You would be an apprentice a long time before becoming a master. I have the utmost respect for Jack Rowe, he is probobly the oldest living authority, in the US, on English and European side x side shotguns and rifles. But , if you handed him a AR-15 and ask him to remove the front handguards he might not know how (he probobly doesn't care to know how). This is my point about apprenticeships, you wouldn't get that 'rounded' education. You could learn only what your teacher knows and would teach you. And, even after graduating from an accredited school, and having those excellent customer service skills, it still takes time to develop that client base. A gunsmithing business works like any other, it takes time and dedication to make it successful. Those that do first class work will survive, unfortunately, those that make firing pins out of nails will still be there, too.