anyone notice difference in poi in relation to cleaning

[Reynolds02]

I was interested to see if anyone has noticed a difference in poi of around .75 moa @ 900 to 1000 if you clean the rifle and are under 30 rnds vs. From 30-60 rnds? I understand it may vary for each gun, but I'm trying to pin it on something and I believe it is happening to me...I did some validation on my 6Br and the rnd count was between 30-60, cleaned the rifle and went hunting...shot at woodchuck missed 1st shot, adjusted and 2nd shot whacked him, parked truck from shooting position ranged from woodchuck and got 925. But I was using an extra.75 moa to get there and the cleaning is all I can come up with??? Any help would be appreciated thanks, Tyler

 

[MagnumManiac]

I have rifles that shoot to POA with a clean barrel, just the same as they do fouled. I also have barrels that shoot to a different POI cleaned, then settle after a few shots, then I have barrels like yours, that take 30 rounds or more. Every barrel is different. If I find a barrel like yours, I will lap it, if it's a comp barrel, if it's a hunting rifle, I keep it in the condition it likes.
My comp rifles rarely get cleaned of copper, only carbon is removed throughout a season. They don't shift POI being squeeky clean to fouled, this is the only way I will keep a comp barrel, if it walks bullets, it goes down the road!

Cheers.
gun)

 

[Reynolds02]

Thanks for the help! I will try just cleaning carbon any leave the copper, the barrel cleans so easy hopefully it will help...I'll just shoot it until I see accuracy falling off, the pic is with 50 rnds down the tube and I'm really happy with the groups just need to figure out where she likes it vertical is extremely good at 900...any more info is always appreciated

 

[MagnumManiac]

In my opinion, people clean too often. The barrel will tell you when it's not liking being fouled.
I can't see a single problem with your groups. Have you tuned your loads by altering bullet jump in .005" increments? This is a good starting point.
Another way to get very consistent results, is to use a method of pouring the powder into the case, if compressed when the bullet is seated, which is to use a powder funnel, pour the powder so that it swirls like a tornado around the axis, this allows the powder to settle even better than a long drop tube. In my comp 300WM, this changed ES and SD dramatically and tightened groups with nomother change to the load. I have shot .25 MoA @ 1000yrds with that load regularly, although it's lifetime aggregate is 3/8 MoA.
This method has held vertical very consistently for me, even over the chrony, a .3gr variance (+/-1.5gr) showed very little velocity difference. If I dump charges straight from the measure, vertical goes out the window, even though groups at 300 are still good.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[MudRunner2005]

In my opinion, people clean too often. The barrel will tell you when it's not liking being fouled.
I can't see a single problem with your groups. Have you tuned your loads by altering bullet jump in .005" increments? This is a good starting point.
Another way to get very consistent results, is to use a method of pouring the powder into the case, if compressed when the bullet is seated, which is to use a powder funnel, pour the powder so that it swirls like a tornado around the axis, this allows the powder to settle even better than a long drop tube. In my comp 300WM, this changed ES and SD dramatically and tightened groups with nomother change to the load. I have shot .25 MoA @ 1000yrds with that load regularly, although it's lifetime aggregate is 3/8 MoA.
This method has held vertical very consistently for me, even over the chrony, a .3gr variance (+/-1.5gr) showed very little velocity difference. If I dump charges straight from the measure, vertical goes out the window, even though groups at 300 are still good.

Cheers.
gun)

Yep. I do the same. I rarely clean unless it starts throwing shots.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

For those that do not clean.
What is the frequency you are shooting?
How long will you leave that barrel fouled with carbon?

I have a hard time leaving it in there.

 

[FearNoWind]

For those that do not clean.
What is the frequency you are shooting?
How long will you leave that barrel fouled with carbon?

I have a hard time leaving it in there.

I "clean", kinda, after every shooting session; match or load development or just trigger time. But I don't CLEAN!!!
My barrels don't copper foul (proper break in) but like all barrels they accumulate some carbon residue. I run solvent soaked patches down the tube one after another until one comes out with just a hint of carbon evidence. Then I do five cycles with the bronze brush, run two more soaked patches through the barrel anf finish with a dry patch. My first round is always a bit off my zero point but I've learned to compensate for that in matches where the first round counts for high point value. From there on it's no problem.
I know shooters who, IMO, wear out a barrel cleaning it without ever getting full benefit of its full life possibilities. Such a waste of good barrels.

 

[Mikecr]

Another option is to dry pre-foul with tungsten(WS2).
With this you can continue fully cleaning bores, followed with an alcohol wash & burnishing in dry pre-fouling, and keep POI the same (at least for cold bore shots).
Coat the bullets to extend shots between cleanings.

I've never subscribed to the clean less notions. My bores are put away better than new & ready for action -every time, no matter how much used. As well, every other part of my guns are maintained pristine, including bolt & trigger internals, and scope glass.

 

[Reynolds02]

Yeah I am just going to shoot and see when the accuracy drops off, then clean carbon to test if it's the carbon, copper, or both. I had a load that was around .25 -3/8 moa about 5 thousands off and wanted to test into the lands which brought me to the groups you saw and I am very happy now...That's about 15 to 20 into the lands. It's going to be a fun experiment with the cleaning. As far as the powder I have been doing that for some time now and didn't know what you have said lol, I just started doing it because some of my other guns are very close to compressed and I noticed it made more space and it's faster than plugging up my funnel and having to keep tapping it to get the powder to flow. I am really happy you said that there's always slick little tricks someone has experimented with...Thank you very much and if there is anything else I'm more than interested to hear them...Tyler

 

[MagnumManiac]

Tyler, I'm happy it's all working for you. Do you de-burr your flash holes? The trick with the powder was a real surprise to me, getting 84gr of Retumbo in a 300WM case was difficult without spilling powder everywhere! Another shooter told me of his technique, it worked, been doing it ever since.
I also fireform my comp brass prior to using it with my comp load, I've always found an accuracy difference between new unfired and fireformed, so that's what I do.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[Reynolds02]

Magnum, I'm using Lapua brass and heard if not careful with the flash holes I could be doing more damage than good? I am not currently informing them currently tho. I feel the same way about fireforming brass, I'm interested to hear if there is more I should be doing to improve or if I should jump to my 338 edge because my impact velocity is between 1500-1600 @950 and I want to keep walking out in yardage to kill chucks. I feel like I have to make a shot on vitals to kill chucks before they get to the hole, as where the Edge could do more damage...it's just so fun to use the BR...LOL Really excited to see how the round count ends up at when accuracy starts dropping off, I may even bring the chrony onto the mix. Thanks again

 

[MagnumManiac]

Magnum, I'm using Lapua brass and heard if not careful with the flash holes I could be doing more damage than good? I am not currently informing them currently tho. I feel the same way about fireforming brass, I'm interested to hear if there is more I should be doing to improve or if I should jump to my 338 edge because my impact velocity is between 1500-1600 @950 and I want to keep walking out in yardage to kill chucks. I feel like I have to make a shot on vitals to kill chucks before they get to the hole, as where the Edge could do more damage...it's just so fun to use the BR...LOL Really excited to see how the round count ends up at when accuracy starts dropping off, I may even bring the chrony onto the mix. Thanks again

With Lapua brass, it's done at the factory, so no need to touch them. You don't need high velocities to kill chucks, just good shot placement. I also have an Edgs, mine is used on deer and pigs, only.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[Gene]

I clean barrels every time after coming home from the range - usually 20-50 shots. Next time out, it will often take 5 - 10 shots to settle down. To me, this indicates that some fouling helps accuracy.

When I shoot in hunting rifles, usually 10 or 15 shots, I do not clean the barrel until season ends, unless the bore gets wet. I want that first shot at a trophy to go right where it did at the range. And, I do not want my quarry to smell gun solvent.

It is not necessary to get the bore squeaky clean every time, a little fouling is OK (according to T. Boyer).

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

I don't think any of my rifle has the same POI clean vs dirty. Every time I clean which is not often all of them take 2-5 shots to settle back down. I also shoot just about every bullet coated, either withmoly or danzac. I have a 22/250 tight neck which can go at least a 100 shots before a throw happens but a few of my magnums start at 25.. But none is so bad that you couldn't hunt with. The only one I keep squeaky clean is my Borden built 6 ppc..it just seems to like being cleaned up even with coated bullets. Who knows if there's a single answer to this question, it's almost an individual thing..