Annealing-how?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Leon, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. Leon

    Leon Member

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    I have been reloading for a couple of weeks now and have worked up a nice load for my .223, .243 & 308 now I have found my load I would like to start to look after my brass I have seen pictures of cases and rounds on here that have been annealed and would like to be able to do it, can somebody please kick me in the right direction.

    Thanks
    Leon
     
  2. thocon

    thocon Well-Known Member

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    To my knowledge all necked cases are annealed.I'ts not what you think,annealing actually removes hardness from tempering.You heat the item to dull red and let cool at room temp,presto.They just clean the cases again so you can't see it.
     
  3. Wind Dancer

    Wind Dancer Active Member

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    Jan 17, 2005
    Most people set the cases in icy, or very cold water before heating the cases. It keeps the lower part of the case from being softened. If the lower part of the case gets soft you could have a case blow out. You don't want that!
     
  4. graphite

    graphite Active Member

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    Leon,

    This method works for me: place the cases to be annealed in a pan of cold water about 1-1.5 inches deep. Get your propane torch out and hold it at a 45 degree angle to the case neck making sure that half the flame goes inside the case neck to hit the opposite side of the neck, and half the flame hits the side of the neck the torch is on. Do this operation with the lights out in the room so you can properly see the annealing take place by watching the color of the case neck change to a dull orange. As soon as the dull orange color moves into the shoulder area, knock the case over in the water to "immediately" cool the case. Try to make sure all of the annealing color change is uniform on the cases so they all perform the same. This procedure is really not needed until your cases lose neck tension. Then this procedure works wonders to soften the necks so they will hold resizing. Good Luck!
     
  5. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Do yourself a huge favor, Get Dr. Ken Howell's book. Follow the instructions to the letter. Hornaday made a kit for this process, get ahold of one of there kits. Forget everything else you have heard about annealing, as to the processes you heard elsewhere, they don't work. They are a rehash of what other gun writers have put in print and that crap about putting them in water does not work! Anyone who has tried it, knows better. Buy, beg or borrow a copy of "Designing and forming CUSTOM CARTARGES" It is the only book in print or for that matter ever in print to my knowledge that tells you the correct method for this process. See chapter 4 of this outstanding work and you will be 1000 miles ahead of the rest of the herd in your gun knowledge! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  6. Leon

    Leon Member

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    Thanks gents, book shopping it is then.

    Leon
     
  7. Aussie

    Aussie Well-Known Member

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    Leon ,
    I read a good article on annealing somewhere that advised against heating to the point where case necks are cherry red . From memory the brass alloy was damaged at this temperature . Neck runout got worse when a blowtorch was used due to difficulty in heating the neck evenly . Suggestion in the article was to dip the case necks in molten lead for a few seconds .Remove cases from lead before they are red hot .Apparently it is not necessary to quench the cases in cold water when this method is used .
     
  8. thocon

    thocon Well-Known Member

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    A mate are you in Perth?I spent 2 years in Exmouth.
     
  9. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    FWIW I've always annealed 223 by holding the case in my fingers and twirling it in a propane torch flame cone. It gets hot enough and because I'm holding it with my fingers I can't hold it long enough to ruin the base of the case. I drop it into a bucket of water.

    Not sure how it would work with larger cases. It works super and does what it needs to on 223
     
  10. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Hey folks, please take this in the sprit it is intended. NUTS. You simply must read chapter four of the good Dr. Howell's book to get a perfect understanding of this process. A vary critical temp must be reached, the case must be heated all the way around. You simply cannot look for a color change! What all of you have recited so far is just a rehash of what other gun writers have put in print. Please all, take a deep breath and find the resolve to read chapter four of Dr. Howell's book. This is a must to get the job done, not just properly, but far more important, safely. Nothing in loading your own is more dangerous than loading a dead soft ctg. case! I believe Dr. Howell can be reached through 24-hour campfire.com. Do a web search for the URL as I have had no luck trying to post one on this web-site (my fault no doubt) I really hate to go on about this but as a long time wildcater and untill this book went into print I followed all the old time bad advice from the gunwriters and was lost. If his book did nothing else for me, It saved me years of trouble and on reflection makes me cry at some of the crap the gunwriters had me try! This really works! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  11. LWolken

    LWolken Well-Known Member

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    I have read this topic in the past and on other forms and it sounds to me like nobody knows what they are doing. Everyone is doing it differently with little or no scientific data or equipment. All say their method works. I have worked in the glass business where we tempered safety glass by heating up and quenching with air and can tell you that a slightly different heat index or quench time will dramatically effect the end results. Enough that we tested a piece of glass every time we changed thickness to make sure it would pass safety standards. Also, I might add that every thickness had a different program. Now I know this is a different substrate but the process is very similar for metals. I also have a brother in law who works with high pressure diaphrams for the oil and gas business and they have an annealing oven to obtain certain RC hardnesses with exotic metals such as gold for corrosion resistance applications and I can tell you none of the results described by the process here can be even remotely consistant by means of final temperature before annealing occurs and how fast the cases are cooled. I would be willing to bet that neck tension is more inconsistent than it was before it was cooked to ahh just about the right color then tossed on the garage floor or dunked in water. I urge anyone who is considering to do this just throw the brass away and start over. Its not worth the risk!

    Lance
     
  12. Aussie

    Aussie Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    A mate are you in Perth?I spent 2 years in Exmouth.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Tho ,
    Nope , about 260 clicks East , halfway to Kalgoorlie and a bloody long way from Exmouth .
    What were you doing in Exmouth ? Military ?
     
  13. thocon

    thocon Well-Known Member

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    Ya,ran the fishing boat and ran the generators.Pleanty of fishing and outback riding,bikes.No shooting,1 man owns/leases the whole cape and he wouldn't let his mother hunt.Altho i did get him to come around,after i wouldn't give him water for his herd,and his stock roamed our 400acre station.we were waiting to get parts for our treatment plant.Next time he showed up he told the boss that we could get all the goats we wanted.Ya ferril,So the dogs ate good after that.i made a 22 smokie that i put on my big spear gun.I lost track of a friend there he moved to Kalgoorlie,Has a unlisted number and the operator won't give me the address.His name is Clinton Wylde,I think he works for the shire.Ya,Exmouth has it advantages,no abbos the witch doctor put it off limits to them,so most of the people there were turos but they stayed.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hornady has adevice on the market that is composed of three different head sized cups that hold the case heads. these can be spun in an electric drill.The case necks are painted with a temp sensitive product that melt at a specific temperature. the case neck and sholder are heated with a propane torch untill the stuff melts then dump in cold water. The case will have a noticable change in color indicatin the annealed portion. If you look at Lilga cases or military brass they show an annealed line also.The purpose of annealling is th change the grain structure from course to a finer one.
    Good luck , the B /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gifear