7mm Berger 180 Hybrids

[BlazerBeam]

Yep, and here is one pulled from a Nilgai… Oh wait, that's not a Berger

View attachment 444455View attachment 444456

Was it a non tipped bullet though? If so it's just a cousin to a Berger

 

[UncleDano]

Very interesting, thanks for posting.

 

[jraulsten]

Was it a non tipped bullet though? If so it's just a cousin to a Berger

Wow........

 

[Bill Peet]

You are describing the exact reason I will never shoot at an elk with less than a 30 cal. I can't tell others what to do but I just don't get it. The older I get the more I love these animals and they deserve better. I think 6.5s and 7s are fine for deer sized game and smaller. Elk and larger game need a bigger bullet for quicker more ethical kills.

I have seen several elk drop from a 7MM at 400-600 yards. Have also seen a cow elk run off after being hit with a 200 gr accubond from a 300 Rem Ultra Mag. The 300 shot was a little back and after close to 400 yards it did fall. They shoot moose with the 6.5 in Europe. Shot placement is key and a bullet that works.
Like you I like a 30 cal but I know others work

 

[BlazerBeam]

Wow........

I assume that was a hammer? Even tho a solid, it's still a Hollow-Point boat tail. In my opinion a tip is the only reliable and predictable way to gain expansion. The explanations for the mechanism of expansion and killing with a cup and core hpbt are just all over the place. Do the tips fill with fluid and then expansion happens in a mushroom fashion? Does the tip bend over and disrupt the jacket? Does the bullet tumble and the stress from tumbling expands the bullet? Aaron Davidson says they "j-hook" and this is what initiates expansion??? He also says it's a risky mechanism of expansion. Is it the actual tumbling and no expansion at really long range that kills so quick? Do you clear the hollow points or not worry about it? In this thread it was stated that the jacket disintegrates and the lead core exits and that gives the appearance of pencilling? So how do they work? I like to completely understand the terminal ballistics of a bullet before fully trusting it on an elk. All I know is that I have a bucket full of Accubond mushrooms pulled out of critters and the dirt behind them and they all look exactly the same.

I have wanted to make the hybrids my go to for a while, but I always whimp out when season comes. I have shot one animal as a trial run, a Muley buck, with a Berger (180 hybrid). I got him through the middle of the ribs (was a .284 sized hole through the rear side of both lungs) at 480 yards. It was an open slope in Wyoming and I watched him run for a long time and finally bed down in a patch of trees. I spent 30-40 mins sneaking over to him and shot him in the neck at 100 yards to actually kill him. I just don't know what to think, because so many people have stated thousands of problem free kills with them, so part of me wants to just trust that and go with it.

What I'm really looking for is someone to convince me to load the 215 hybrids I have stashed for my .300 win…..

 

[jraulsten]

I assume that was a hammer? Even tho a solid, it's still a Hollow-Point boat tail. In my opinion a tip is the only reliable and predictable way to gain expansion. The explanations for the mechanism of expansion and killing with a cup and core hpbt are just all over the place. Do the tips fill with fluid and then expansion happens in a mushroom fashion? Does the tip bend over and disrupt the jacket? Does the bullet tumble and the stress from tumbling expands the bullet? Aaron Davidson says they "j-hook" and this is what initiates expansion??? He also says it's a risky mechanism of expansion. Is it the actual tumbling and no expansion at really long range that kills so quick? Do you clear the hollow points or not worry about it? In this thread it was stated that the jacket disintegrates and the lead core exits and that gives the appearance of pencilling? So how do they work? I like to completely understand the terminal ballistics of a bullet before fully trusting it on an elk. All I know is that I have a bucket full of Accubond mushrooms pulled out of critters and the dirt behind them and they all look exactly the same.

I have wanted to make the hybrids my go to for a while, but I always whimp out when season comes. I have shot one animal as a trial run, a Muley buck, with a Berger (180 hybrid). I got him through the middle of the ribs (was a .284 sized hole through the rear side of both lungs) at 480 yards. It was an open slope in Wyoming and I watched him run for a long time and finally bed down in a patch of trees. I spent 30-40 mins sneaking over to him and shot him in the neck at 100 yards to actually kill him. I just don't know what to think, because so many people have stated thousands of problem free kills with them, so part of me wants to just trust that and go with it.

What I'm really looking for is someone to convince me to load the 215 hybrids I have stashed for my .300 win…..

I really hope you'll give the 215s a try. But if not, please give me first chance to buy

 

[jcann]

I love it, all these dead elk killed by a bullet that didn't perform. I want to know what happens to the elk when hit by a bullet that does perform?

 

[BlazerBeam]

I really hope you'll give the 215s a try. But if not, please give me first chance to buy

Ok, to that I will ask, will my 1:10 barrel make any negative difference in terminal performance as opposed to a 1:9 with the 215? I shoot and hunt 4,500 feet and above. I know the stability factor is above 1.5 but didn't know if people get better terminal ballistics with spinning them faster

 

[jraulsten]

I really have no idea what effect, if any, that twist would have on terminal performance but I'm sure someone on here can chime in. My only experience has been with 9 twist at lesser elevations and I can say the bullet has been devastating. Sometimes too much so if shot placement is not quite perfect.

 

[2buffalo]

Ok, to that I will ask, will my 1:10 barrel make any negative difference in terminal performance as opposed to a 1:9 with the 215? I shoot and hunt 4,500 feet and above. I know the stability factor is above 1.5 but didn't know if people get better terminal ballistics with spinning them faster

Like 300 prc said any bullet can and will fail eventually.

 

[Lycan]

I've found the 180 Hybrids to be very explosive. I can't get an exit hole on whitetails until past 300 yards on whitetails from the 28 Nosler.

At 20 yards the 180 won't leave an exit on a neck shot.

I do clean the tips with a .036 bit.

 

[elkaholic]

Ok, to that I will ask, will my 1:10 barrel make any negative difference in terminal performance as opposed to a 1:9 with the 215? I shoot and hunt 4,500 feet and above. I know the stability factor is above 1.5 but didn't know if people get better terminal ballistics with spinning them faster

More twist does 2 things, when more is needed. It keeps the nose of the bullet flying true to axis (yaw). or lack thereof.
Some will argue this, but more rotational velocity aids in expansion and causes more tissue damage

 

[7.62 Gunner]

The hits were absolutely good. Quartering Broadside. Through both lungs
Yes "most all of the bullets" in this lot were "bad". 500 bullets separated by weight. The largest group (378) being plus or minus 1 grain from 180.1 grains
I have tried to contact Berger with this problem. No response after a week. Why I waited to post. Like I said I'm not bashing them. I use a lot of their bullets in different rigs.
This 7saum has taken dozens of animals with this bullet and the 180 eldm's. One cow elk at 1149 yards with the 180 hybrid in fact. I was just trying to inform others of my experiences

I've had the exact thing happen with 215s on a bull, two penciled right through the lungs and he took off into timber.
I eventually caught a lucky break and spotted him in a small opening and put him down with a third shot (which expanded).

I've done a bunch of hillbilly expansion testing with 180 hybrids and 180 vldh at impact velocities in the 2000-2200 fps range.
I have never recovered a vldh that didn't expand well, but the results with hybrids has been very erratic.
I've seen the same thing with the 220 LRHT, I don't care what some people claim.
There is without a doubt a difference in the expansion reliability between hybrid targets, LRHTs, and the VLDH.

The 195s also behave similar to the hybrids though, with erratic expansion being pretty common even at 200 yards.
I've heard it theorized that the super long heavy for caliber bergers just don't expand as well due to instability on impact.

I've been super impressed with how fast the 180 VLDH put critters down, however I won't be using the hybrids anymore.
If anyone's interested I have a pile of 180 VLD target and hybrid targets.

 

[trout004]

Has anyone experienced clogged tips / poor expansion with the