6.5 Remington Mag

[CoasttoCoast]

Im looking for some information on this round. Ive done a lot of google searches and found a lot of info already, but still have a few questions. Im trying to build a lightweight rifle for mountain hunting, and am looking at different calibers. Ballistically this thing looks like a winner, but ammo is hard to come by from what I understand. I do reload, so that isn't as big of a problem for me.

1. everything I read says to build this round in a long action because of overall cartridge length. Id rather keep this rifle in a short action to save weight. do any of you have experience with this round in a short action shooting 130 grain Berger VLDs? would using the Wyatts extended magazine box make a difference with this issue? What OACL do I need to be at to use these bullets? and to shoot them accurately?

2. I know the original rifles that were chambered in this round had 18.5 inch barrels. That's awesome and would save a lot of weight. What kind of ballistics can I expect to get using the 130 grain VLD bullet out of a 18.5 inch barrel? Would I benefit much by going up to a 20 inch barrel? I don't think id want to go any longer than that for this rifle.

3. How hard is it to find quality brass? Ive google searched it without any success. Any suggestions on how to get brass in this Cal?

4. Is there another caliber that im overlooking that would be a better fit for a lightweight, short barrel, short action mountain rifle?

The WSMs definitely have my attention, but I have my concerns about going that rout. Wouldn't a 20 inch barrel be too short for these calibers? Plus id probably need a muzzle brake to tame the recoil on such a light rifle.

Thanks for your input

 

[liltank]

What distance do you plan to shoot to? Other calibers that come to mind is the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x47 lapua. The 130 is right up the lapua's alley. Short throat 6.5-284 or 260Rem. All very capable. Remember reading an article about a 20" 260 being a very capable rifle to quite a distance. You could always do an akley improved version of the 260.

 

[WildRose]

It's a neat little round that has a lot of novelty appeal but that's about it.

Brass is extremely hard to get.

You would have to most likely have custom dies made, which are quite expensive.

Factory Ammo is nonexistent.

Performance other 6.5's is roughly equal or better.

You'd be far better off looking at the .260 Rem, 6.5x47L, or 6.5 Creedmore.

 

[CoasttoCoast]

What distance do you plan to shoot to? Other calibers that come to mind is the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x47 lapua. The 130 is right up the lapua's alley. Short throat 6.5-284 or 260Rem. All very capable. Remember reading an article about a 20" 260 being a very capable rifle to quite a distance. You could always do an akley improved version of the 260.

Honestly, 5-600 yards. The rifle will mostly be used for mule deer, but hopefully some time within the next half century id like to use it for sheep/goat... I thought I had my mind made up on the 7mm-08, but decided I prolly wouldn't shoot anything heavier than a 140 grain, and the 6.5 bullets have higher bcs in that weight range when compared the the 7mm. I looked at the ballistics of the 260 rem and I think id have to use a 22in + barrel to be able to get it carry energy to those distances. I was hoping to avoid that and get the lightweight package with a short barrel.

 

[WildRose]

Honestly, 5-600 yards. The rifle will mostly be used for mule deer, but hopefully some time within the next half century id like to use it for sheep/goat... I thought I had my mind made up on the 7mm-08, but decided I prolly wouldn't shoot anything heavier than a 140 grain, and the 6.5 bullets have higher bcs in that weight range when compared the the 7mm. I looked at the ballistics of the 260 rem and I think id have to use a 22in + barrel to be able to get it carry energy to those distances. I was hoping to avoid that and get the lightweight package with a short barrel.

The 260 and 6.5L are both designed around shorter barrels in AR style rifles and both perform very well. in the shorter barrel lengths.

Carry wise you would not no difference in packing a 22" version over a 20" version. You are talking about roughly an an ounce of weight difference even in a bull magnum contour barrel.

 

[liltank]

The 260 and 6.5L are both designed around shorter barrels in AR style rifles and both perform very well. in the shorter barrel lengths.

Carry wise you would not no difference in packing a 22" version over a 20" version. You are talking about roughly an an ounce of weight difference even in a bull magnum contour barrel.

I agree 100%. I have short barrel 308 that is right there with full length barrels and I am not giving anything up. BC will carry you easy to 5-600 yards in a 260 20". Do some more research and run the numbers over a ballistics program.

 

[SansSouci]

CoasttoCoast,

I think that the 6.5 Rem Mag was a great cartridge that seemed to never garner wide appeal. I'd imagine that a rifle chambered for this round would need an at least 22" barrel in order for optimal ballistic performance. But this is just a guess.

If you're on to a 6.5MM caliber, I'd go with the 6.5 Swede. It performs extremely well with a 20.5" barrel: Real Guns - Handload Data - 6.5x55mm Swede Scandinavians have used the 6.5 Swede on huge moose for over a century.

I'd guess that there is no practical difference between the 6.5 Swede & 6.5 Rem Mag out of 20" barrels. Again, that is just a guess.

I'd think that 6.5 Swede ammo & brass would be easier to find.

My mountain rifle is a 22" barreled Sako AV chambered for .270 Win. I hunt the Rockies exclusively. If I had to do it all over again, I'd of bought a 22" barreled .280 Rem and never looked back nor would I have ever needed another gun. There really is no practical difference between the .270 Win & .280 Rem except when 175 grain .280 Rem bullets are considered. Then the .280 Rem has a decided advantage.

The hunters who have recommended the .260 Rem might have the right answer.

 

[CoasttoCoast]

from what ive been able to calc, I should be able to get 2700 fps with the 140 gr and 2800 fps with the 130 grain pills out of the 260. this would carry 1000 ft lbs of energy to the 500 yard mark with the accubonds but not much further. berger vlds perform better. does anyone shoot either the 130 or 140 berger vlds out of a 260? how do they perform on deer sized game out of that cal?

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Nothing wrong with the 6.5 rem mag in theory, problem is it can be bested by lots of cartridges these days with not much of a problem. If you have an original Remington rifle, loved the blonde stripe that some had going down the stock it's actually worth more if you just retire it and look at it or cash in, I would imagine a collector would be interested in it for way more than you paid for it new. Someone stated that brass is impossible to find, that is not an exageration, have a friend that is always looking and has never found any anywhere..he's running out of the original casings that he's been reloading for decades. Barrel length would be optimal around 22-24 but you could change that by changing the burning rate of the reloaded powders somewhat. I think you be better served by changing casings, 6.5 / 06 would be a great choice and there will never be a shortage of 06 brass, it can be found anywhere anytime. All these new concept cartridges are somewhat in question, the question is brass, if you decide to build one, find lots of brass, buy it along with the dies and then build one from what you got.

 

[SansSouci]

CoasttoCoast,

I know that some hunters are capable of killing deer at 500 yards, but that is a long way. In all of my years of hunting the Rockies, I have shot but two animals that far away, and in each case I wasn't able to close distance.

I'd bet that for nearly all of your hunting requirements, a .260 Rem will get your jobs done. Were it me, I'd go with a .280 Rem in a light rifle that I can carry all day long up and down high ridges. But I know how it is when a hunter is set on a certain cartridge. I think that all hunters are the same in that regard. Only the right scratch will work on a specific itch.

Also, please keep in mind that to shoot a long way requires a lot of range time, usually with guns that hurt to shoot. Moreover, when hunting, conditions would have to be absolutely perfect to attempt such a shot. From my experience, the opposite is most often true as it was for me just over a month ago on a huge bull elk. Trying to hold a rifle steady when breathing is labored and heart rate is off an EKG is next to impossible. I was fortunate that that bull stayed stationary long enough for my breathing and heart rate to return to normal.

 

[CoasttoCoast]

CoasttoCoast,

I know that some hunters are capable of killing deer at 500 yards, but that is a long way. In all of my years of hunting the Rockies, I have shot but two animals that far away, and in each case I wasn't able to close distance.

I'd bet that for nearly all of your hunting requirements, a .260 Rem will get your jobs done. Were it me, I'd go with a .280 Rem in a light rifle that I can carry all day long up and down high ridges. But I know how it is when a hunter is set on a certain cartridge. I think that all hunters are the same in that regard. Only the right scratch will work on a specific itch.

Also, please keep in mind that to shoot a long way requires a lot of range time, usually with guns that hurt to shoot. Moreover, when hunting, conditions would have to be absolutely perfect to attempt such a shot. From my experience, the opposite is most often true as it was for me just over a month ago on a huge bull elk. Trying to hold a rifle steady when breathing is labored and heart rate is off an EKG is next to impossible. I was fortunate that that bull stayed stationary long enough for my breathing and heart rate to return to normal.

Isnt the 280 a long action caliber? I understand why you comment about not taking the long shots... and my longest kill to date is 360 yards. the problem is, that I hunt in Nevada and there are big open canyons, and sometimes getting closer isn't possible. I figured 500 would be about the max id feel comfortable shooting, and that's why im using that as my benchmark distance. If im presented a situation where I cant get closer, id still like to be able to take the shot if I feel comfortable with it.

I don't have my heart set on the 6.5 RM, and by the sounds of it, it isn't the best option due to lack of availability of ammo and brass. I just want to pick a good caliber that will perform well out of a short action. I need the short action to save weight on this build. Looks like a lot of you guys like the 260, and its prolly perfect for my application. its flat shooting and has high BC bullets. If I chose that round, what would be the optimal barrel length?

 

[SansSouci]

Hi CoasttoCoast,

Yep, the .280 Rem is a long action cartridge. And it is arguably the best cartridge for all North American big game hunting. I wish I owned one. I believe the 6.5 Swede is long action as well.

I don't like carrying heavy rifles either. But then again, I'm good with an 8-pound rifle. Most important to me are reliability and accuracy.

If I have this right, you're looking for 7MM Rem Mag ballistics in a short-action rifle. There are probably ways to achieve this.

Since you're looking at 500 yard shots, my advice is rather than build, go with a Sako. Sako guarantees 5-shot MOA. It might be cheaper in the long run than building one.

I had a friend who had a few custom made rifles. He told me that none of his rifles would shoot as accurately as my Sako 7MM Rem Mag. It is a heavy rifle, and i have wished for lighter when walking up & down Rocky mountain ridges, but the accuracy factor helped to justify weight.

My Rocky Mountain rifle is a Sako AV chambered in .270 Win. It is heavier than most other 22" barreled bolt actions. In fact, I am going to make it my primary rifle for all North American big game including elk & moose.

If you can get 7MM Rem Mag ballistics out of a lightweight short-action, that might be the way to go. On the other side of that coin is the recoil factor when bench shooting.

Hunting involves trade-offs. I'll go with a heavier rifle that is accurate and reliable and look elsewhere to shed weight. But this is about your rifle, so you'll have to go the route that's right for you.

I sincerely hope that you're able to get your rifle exactly as you want it.

 

[CoasttoCoast]

Thanks for the kind words SansSouci. you hit the nail right on the head when you mentioned that I want magnum performance out of a short action. I think the 6.5 RM would fit that bill, but at what cost? It just isn't a very popular round, and id be running the risk of not being able to find brass for it in the future. It would suck pretty bad if I had a custom rifle that I couldn't shoot because of that.

I think ill look into the 260 Remington more. I think with the right bullet I can still achieve good ballistics at 500 yards.

Thanks for the help and opinions!

 

[WildRose]

Isnt the 280 a long action caliber? I understand why you comment about not taking the long shots... and my longest kill to date is 360 yards. the problem is, that I hunt in Nevada and there are big open canyons, and sometimes getting closer isn't possible. I figured 500 would be about the max id feel comfortable shooting, and that's why im using that as my benchmark distance. If im presented a situation where I cant get closer, id still like to be able to take the shot if I feel comfortable with it.

I don't have my heart set on the 6.5 RM, and by the sounds of it, it isn't the best option due to lack of availability of ammo and brass. I just want to pick a good caliber that will perform well out of a short action. I need the short action to save weight on this build. Looks like a lot of you guys like the 260, and its prolly perfect for my application. its flat shooting and has high BC bullets. If I chose that round, what would be the optimal barrel length?

Either the 6.5-284 or .260 is a great choice for you. As for sticking to a short action you may want to reconsider. The difference in weight between the long and short actions is only about 1.5oz.

As for barrel, at a minimum I'd go with a 1:8.5 twist and preferably 1:8.

In such a setup you can take advantage of the heavier VLD's and "hunting bulelts" with their corresponding higher bc's.

Barrel length wise I'd stick with 24". Even with a magnum bull contour you're talking about less than 1/2oz per ounce and the added weight and length will help with velocity and accuracy.

If you go with the .260 you can go with the 20-22" barrel though and still be ok pushing 140's at better than 2800fps.