5 shot groups 3 together and 2 fliers?

[Shane Lindsey]

All good questions. It starts clean. Clean, btw, how clean is a whole nuther rabbit hole. F class shooters clean differently than Benchrest shooters. Then there's borescope clean. No borescope clean is a clean patch. Borescope clean is a clean patch AND a nice visibly clean barrel. That comes well after the clean patch did. I was in the clean when it isn't accurate camp. Until the last year or so I shot maybe 5 rounds out of this rifle a year. Those were shot to tune up before deer season and deer season. So the rifle got a quick clean then something to prevent rust at the end of deer season.

Fatigue, no, not on the day the target was shot. It was hot when I got there then showers went through and cooled things down a little before I got set up. No mirage for a change.

I keep an eye on the velocity for each shot (LabRadar). That usually correlates to a "flier". Of course I'm not a robot (as far as we know) so of course there are my little errors (little LOL) here and there. I recently had to reset the Jewell trigger in the 7mm back to factory adjustments. It's a little heavy for my liking. I'm going to check the weight and drop it back to 2 - 2.5# today.

It shoots better clean. I can see a noticeable improvement from when I started (patch clean) to now (borescope clean). When I shoot it at deer season, it'll be clean. Now I clean every time either at the range before I leave or when I get home.

At the distance we shoot deer here in TX it'll kill with factory ammo if I was inclined to buy factory ammo. I'm just checking performance of the 150 gr Barnes TTSX.

I have Remington, CCI, Federal, and <cough> Wolf primers (they go bang if I need them to). I really should test with different primers. I hand prime with a Sinclair tool. I can feel when a primer is different than another (high for instance) and I usually set that case aside to use as a sighter (fouler).

Maybe try to jump them even more. I only loaded them in a few rifles, but Barnes liked a good bit of jumo for me. Like, funny, non-sexy looking bullets. But the targets were...

 

[Mike6158]

Maybe try to jump them even more. I only loaded them in a few rifles, but Barnes liked a good bit of jumo for me. Like, funny, non-sexy looking bullets. But the targets were...

I had to dig out my notebook for this one. It sounds like you're familiar with Erik Cortina's videos. Per his stop chasing the lands video I measured jam with the same bullet I'm testing (150 gr Barnes TTSX). Jam for my Sendero is (well, was, it gets longer as I shoot it), 3.144" but that was measured with a Sinclair comparator. I use SAC comparators now. Sinclair measures .033" longer than the SAC comparators so 3.144 - .033 = 3.111 to jam with the Sinclair. Best group, was 2.588 using the SAC comparator. 0.523" of jump (ish, just because I have 3 decimal places that doesn't mean it's right ). I started to name my Sendero Porn Star because her throat is so deep I started testing powder at 2.580". I've been at this for a couple of months. The next group will be iteration #9 not counting the times I reshot a group. Sometimes I loaded 10 groups of 3. Sometimes I loaded 5 groups of 3 (counting the foulers). I'm on my 4th box of bullets.

Some of the early testing wasn't done with as much care as I've evolved to: like cleaning, annealing is now the first step. The AMP really makes that easy. FL case sizing without a sizing button. Then neck sizing with a bushing die, then using an expander mandrel for .002" of neck tension. I turn the case 1/4-ish turn with each step just to help with concentricity. Truth be told, I've checked concentricity and I don't really need to do the twisty step. The powder drops are weighed on a scale that's accurate to the 2nd decimal place. I let my scales warm up for 15m. Sometimes longer. I true up the tenths value as close as I can. I can usually make it 0.00 if that's what I need. I found out that my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 will occasionally drop 0.1gr high and show 0.0gr. That's a bigger change than some would believe.

I started out just trying to test a TTSX for stability out to 300 yards. The plastic tip in them looks "janky". Janky is a highly scientific measure of, yeah... I don't know. Plus it has all of the grooves cut into the base. So far, I've been able to get them to shoot better.

I'm worried about going hunting and having to wait for the proper position of the sun, position of the moon, wind speed, wind direction, atmospheric pressure, temperature, humidity, and tides before I can shoot. No wait, tides is for something else.

 

[Ckleeves]

If you shot a 20 shot group those "fliers" would probably be part of the whole group.

Barring any scope, action screw, or scope mount issue they are probably not fliers

X2. You could slow fire a 10 round group and my money is on it being slightly bigger then that 5 shot.

I don't buy to heavily into the hot barrel theory's. Not saying it doesn't happen or there aren't barrels that walk when heated up but I think it's an easy excuse that's used way to much. In the odd cases where it does happen that barrel needs pulled and trashed imo. A 5 shot string really isn't that intense.

 

[memtb]

I firmly believe that a "hot" barrel will alter the barrel harmonics, some more than others, and will consequently affect group sizes! JMO memtb

 

[kwcreager]

I've been doing a load workup for my 300 win mag and I can't seem to get the fliers to go away. I found my powder node and then tried to tune the fliers out with my seating depth. I'm doing 5 shot groups and the first 3 are usually stacking on top of each other and then the next 2 are fliers. I am shooting these 5 round groups with about 30 seconds between each shot. Do yall think it's my barrel getting too hot?

what velocity are you getting for all 5 shots?

 

[Shane Lindsey]

I had to dig out my notebook for this one. It sounds like you're familiar with Erik Cortina's videos. Per his stop chasing the lands video I measured jam with the same bullet I'm testing (150 gr Barnes TTSX). Jam for my Sendero is (well, was, it gets longer as I shoot it), 3.144" but that was measured with a Sinclair comparator. I use SAC comparators now. Sinclair measures .033" longer than the SAC comparators so 3.144 - .033 = 3.111 to jam with the Sinclair. Best group, was 2.588 using the SAC comparator. 0.523" of jump (ish, just because I have 3 decimal places that doesn't mean it's right ). I started to name my Sendero Porn Star because her throat is so deep I started testing powder at 2.580". I've been at this for a couple of months. The next group will be iteration #9 not counting the times I reshot a group. Sometimes I loaded 10 groups of 3. Sometimes I loaded 5 groups of 3 (counting the foulers). I'm on my 4th box of bullets.

Some of the early testing wasn't done with as much care as I've evolved to: like cleaning, annealing is now the first step. The AMP really makes that easy. FL case sizing without a sizing button. Then neck sizing with a bushing die, then using an expander mandrel for .002" of neck tension. I turn the case 1/4-ish turn with each step just to help with concentricity. Truth be told, I've checked concentricity and I don't really need to do the twisty step. The powder drops are weighed on a scale that's accurate to the 2nd decimal place. I let my scales warm up for 15m. Sometimes longer. I true up the tenths value as close as I can. I can usually make it 0.00 if that's what I need. I found out that my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 will occasionally drop 0.1gr high and show 0.0gr. That's a bigger change than some would believe.

I started out just trying to test a TTSX for stability out to 300 yards. The plastic tip in them looks "janky". Janky is a highly scientific measure of, yeah... I don't know. Plus it has all of the grooves cut into the base. So far, I've been able to get them to shoot better.

I'm worried about going hunting and having to wait for the proper position of the sun, position of the moon, wind speed, wind direction, atmospheric pressure, temperature, humidity, and tides before I can shoot. No wait, tides is for something else.

SInce you are into monos. The easy button is to scrap the Barnes and try Hammers. Several rifles, several (10) shots to find load. .050" off lands. Load 1gr up to pressure, once found back off. Shoot the remaining over the chrono. Only a few needed much tweaking with seating depth. Then found the FCD...

 

[brant89]

I recently had an issue finding a load for my 300WM with the 208 ELDM. Found a load that did something similar except it wouldn't be the last two shots, it would be at random. A larger sample size proved that it wasn't actually shooting two different POI's, it was just a very odd statistical anomaly. Actual group size was much bigger than expected. Tried a different bullet and the problem disappeared. Sometimes a barrel just doesn't like what you are feeding it and you have to try something else.

 

[bamban]

That's the reason I shoot multiple full mags from the M1a I take to SoTex to ensure stable grouping. A minute and half to two minute gun will kill anything within reasonable range. 200 yards, X ring is 3 inches

 

[chrisb97]

what velocity are you getting for all 5 shots?

Going out with the chrono tomorrow. I'll make sure to post it

 

[Stang66]

I've been doing a load workup for my 300 win mag and I can't seem to get the fliers to go away. I found my powder node and then tried to tune the fliers out with my seating depth. I'm doing 5 shot groups and the first 3 are usually stacking on top of each other and then the next 2 are fliers. I am shooting these 5 round groups with about 30 seconds between each shot. Do yall think it's my barrel getting too hot?

So with factory ammo can you shoot a five shot groups without flyers? Then wait for the barrel to completely cool then repeat. Take your time on every shot. Try to keep your eye on the target in your scope through impact.
If yes to the above question then you have a reloading issue.
Are you testing with a Chronograph? If not you need to, otherwise you are guessing what's wrong!
You need to be weighing every powder charge on an accurate scale with no wind/air flow causing errors and they need to be exactly the same. Along with bullet length and weight.
Test the factory ammo and then your reloads, log your numbers,FPS, ES, S.D.
You need to only change one thing at a time! Then test.

Best of luck hope you get it running right. May check out Erik Cortina's reloading u-tube stuff

 

[Mike6158]

SInce you are into monos. The easy button is to scrap the Barnes and try Hammers. Several rifles, several (10) shots to find load. .050" off lands. Load 1gr up to pressure, once found back off. Shoot the remaining over the chrono. Only a few needed much tweaking with seating depth. Then found the FCD...

I don't know if I'm all that into mono's as I am just a little curious. BTW - the little square (diamond, whatever) in the center of the target is 1/2" not 1".

 

[Shane Lindsey]

I don't know if I'm all that into mono's as I am just a little curious. BTW - the little square (diamond, whatever) in the center of the target is 1/2" not 1".

I'm into whayever shoots best.

 

[memtb]

I'm into whayever shoots best.

For shooting…..absolutely!

For hunting…..whatever kills best, assuming that accuracy is adequate for the shot ranges! Not all accurate bullets are acceptable for use on game if…..less than precision/surgical placement is achieved!

Only those that are delusional or have no empathy for game animals believe that "every" shot on game will be perfectly placed! JM "very biased" Opinion! memtb

 

[chrisb97]

Well whoever guessed my ES was over 130fps would've been correct. I have never had my my ES that far off and I had over 2 inches of vertical stringing this time around. I am very particular about my loading so after 60 rounds with ramshot magnum I believe it's time to switch to h4831sc. I have not had good luck so far with the ramshot