408 The way it should be

Swamplord, just out of curiosity how much $$$$ do you have wrapped up into your wildcats and custom ran bullets? I am impressed with your method of creating a wildcat from scratch and just want to know what it takes to do it. To keep the thread on track sorta that 400 warlord makes the cheytac look like a kids toy.
 
Swamplord, just out of curiosity how much $$$$ do you have wrapped up into your wildcats and custom ran bullets? I am impressed with your method of creating a wildcat from scratch and just want to know what it takes to do it. To keep the thread on track sorta that 400 warlord makes the cheytac look like a kids toy.
Mister Fish Box I know that Pro spinds as much if not more than I do but to give you an example 408 Colossus photo up top in the original post you see that brass in the background that is $1,600 for that lot. And not in the photo the 416 colossus another $3000.00. custom bullets we had designed the 450 grain ICBM that's also another 250 plus dollars to load those cases and that 185 grains of powder per shot that's about 25 rounds for a pound of powder. Of course that is not including rifle build action stock scope reloading dies. Not to mention the time the effort and the energy put into designing stuff like we do. The end results is extremely rewarding to be able to shoot further and faster all for the reward of hearing steel ring. My out-of-pocket expense on the development of the 408 and 416 Colossus will be a total of about $12,000 and that is with discount and me doing the Gunsmithing. And that's just one of many rifles . Wildcats that we have done I'm guessing between Pro and I we have probably close to a hundred Wildcats approximately 30 of them are not based on any parent cartridge. We have gone to the extent of working with Pierce engineering to have currently three actions built for the sole purpose of wildcatting and John and I are working on two more as we speak. We are not alone in this endeavor there is a lot of like-minded people and companies working with us to see our dreams become reality it will not be without reward stay tuned soon I'll post a photo of the finished build with the custom 2.5" tube chassis designed for out 20x action its guna be awesome . The ex-nihilo based cartridges that pro and I designed 420 blitz 375 mars 420 enforcer 408 and 416 colossus are truly ground up re designing the modern rifle . We now have specialized brass. Specialized primers working on obtaining special powder specialized actions specialized bipods I designed specialized tuner brakes I designed we now have specialized chassis and now working on artificial intelligence ballistic software and hardware and and getting ready to devlope primerless cartridges.
 
Is my guess of $20 a shot in the right ballpark?

That primerless cartridge sounds interesting and probably expensive.
no not $20 a shot you forget that the $10 piece of brass can be used over and over and over again. As far as the primerless cases this is the first time I have spoken of it in public you will not hear about it again until you see it out on the market. It won't be any more expensive then the $10 a piece iwe pay now it just won't have a primer
 
I would like to see one of those big cases shoot a sabot design similar to what the Abrams tank uses. A smooth bore with skinny darts just might be the next evolution of extreme long range shooting. Higher velocity and higher bc. No rifling or twist rates to worry about. Just super high speed tungsten darts. Would suck for hunting and would put holes in all your ar500 steel. Would have to have Chobham armor plates made.
Shep
 
I was not expecting throw away brass but those custom made solids can't be cheap. Custom primers probably cost more than .50 BMG primers. They are going to use lots of powder and then amortize the reloading equipment costs, barrels and reamers. It all adds up.

For my 338 RUM, brass was about $1.30 but its 300 RUM and needs neck expanding and shoulder bumping. Not a huge deal but I hope the primer pockets last for at least 4-5 shots for $0.26-.33 a shot for brass. A Berger bullet is about $0.80. A primer is about $0.04. Powder is about $0.38. If my barrel lasts 1,300 shots, that's $0.50 each. Dies amortized over 1,300 shots are about $0.15, maybe less if I go through two barrels because i just got a $60 Hornady die set, a Hornady modified case, a $14 Lee crimp die, a $20 redding body die, a $24 Lee die set for neck expanding, a few spare expander stems and I'm going to get a Lee custom collet neck die for $75. I think that's $2.13 per if I get five loads a case. If I get 10 loads a case or amortize over 2,600+ rounds and two barrels, I'll be closer to $2.00 per.

I know that is cheap for entry level ELR. More mainstream cartridges like 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 cost half as much to reload because brass life is better, barrel life is better, you use less than half the powder, a Berger 140 is about $0.45 each and since brass is easy to find, you can use a pretty simple reloading die setup instead of buying stuff to neck up and shoulder bump and different stuff to use once the case is formed and fire formed.

You have to deal with large size die bodies, custom dies, custom reamers, custom brass and your barrels probably shoot out pretty fast by comparison. I'm still thinking $20 a shot isn't too far off.
 
I was not expecting throw away brass but those custom made solids can't be cheap. Custom primers probably cost more than .50 BMG primers. They are going to use lots of powder and then amortize the reloading equipment costs, barrels and reamers. It all adds up.

For my 338 RUM, brass was about $1.30 but its 300 RUM and needs neck expanding and shoulder bumping. Not a huge deal but I hope the primer pockets last for at least 4-5 shots for $0.26-.33 a shot for brass. A Berger bullet is about $0.80. A primer is about $0.04. Powder is about $0.38. If my barrel lasts 1,300 shots, that's $0.50 each. Dies amortized over 1,300 shots are about $0.15, maybe less if I go through two barrels because i just got a $60 Hornady die set, a Hornady modified case, a $14 Lee crimp die, a $20 redding body die, a $24 Lee die set for neck expanding, a few spare expander stems and I'm going to get a Lee custom collet neck die for $75. I think that's $2.13 per if I get five loads a case. If I get 10 loads a case or amortize over 2,600+ rounds and two barrels, I'll be closer to $2.00 per.

I know that is cheap for entry level ELR. More mainstream cartridges like 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 cost half as much to reload because brass life is better, barrel life is better, you use less than half the powder, a Berger 140 is about $0.45 each and since brass is easy to find, you can use a pretty simple reloading die setup instead of buying stuff to neck up and shoulder bump and different stuff to use once the case is formed and fire formed.

You have to deal with large size die bodies, custom dies, custom reamers, custom brass and your barrels probably shoot out pretty fast by comparison. I'm still thinking $20 a shot isn't too far off.
I see you point but extreme range is what we are looking for. 300 winbags 6.5 crudmore just wont do at the distances we have designed this stuff for. I dont take into consideration most if the items you have spoken about . dies and press and reloading equipment are tools. a mechanic never evaluates how much money he can make in time savings using air powered tools vrs hand tools he purchases too he need to be the best he can be. Barrels are like tires no one ever buys tires for their hot rod but refuses to drive it as not wanting to loose tire tread. Primers and powder is like fuel for the hot rod high performance high HP vehicles get ****** milage. I never know any one who has broken down over all expenses on the exact cost to the penny to what it cause to pull the trigger to the level you have. That's not a bad thing just strange to me. Are you a CPA I need some one to do my taxes. Lol all joking aside I understand your point but we will never allow expenses to dictate our performance or advancements in our direction of advancing the military applications and elr shooting we dont do what we do for the average joe. Only those who say I want more . Thanks for expounding your point.
 
I thought the definition of ELR started at 1,500 yards or a mile and certainly at 2,000 yards.

I'm planning to try 2,000+ yards with my 338 RUM. I know that's not in the same league as one of your wildcats but to say it isn't ELR is kind of petty.

I only mentioned the costs of 6.5 Creedmoor to illustrate the range of costs going from a good and affordable long range round to an entry level ELR round (338 RUM).

I have an idea of what .50 BMG costs to shoot and it's more than 338 RUM even if you use surplus brass, bullets and even pull-down powder. If you step up to match grade stuff it gets pretty expensive but probably still cheap compared to an ELR wildcat with no parent case.

The point I was making is that these no parent wildcats are expensive and reusing brass more than 10 times is great but doesn't make them cheap.

I wasn't comparing anything to .38 Special reloads made from recycled wheel weights, dont make it seem like I was doing anything beside commenting on cost
 
My response was not intended to slight you or anyone else, it was regarding ELR only .....

The stuff we are doing is something that I have advocated for several decades, somebody has to have the testes to push forward with new ideas that spur others in the same field to compete and make manufacturers take notice and provide new IMPROVED products to support the race.....

Happy to say it has absolutely worked in our (your ?) favor , big mfgs now making bullets with the highest bc's known to mankind (and aliens) Powder developments have surged forward along with barrel mfgs now making barrels in some of the most unprecedented barrel twists,,, can you believe I had several 8 twist barrels made in .408 cal by a major barrel maker ? How about a 7 twist in 8mm ? Just a few years ago ALL barrel companies would have given us the stink eye for such wild requests.. ELR and the competition programs that have evolved from that concept is making a huge impact on the shooting industry, you and I are now being heard and action is being taken by those wishing to profit by providing the products we desire....... Capitalism at it's best..... It is awesome
 
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