Hey I'm sure this topic has been beat half to death but just bought a lightly used Alberta Tactical 338 lapua ackley improved with 29" rock creek bbl and the previos owner loaded 300 smk to hs mag length (3.7?) and 110 grns of us869. I'd like to use h-1000 or retumbo and run 300 bergers just off lands just wondering the starting loads for smk and bergers with these powders when seated .010 off lands. Also wonder if CCI primers will be of choice. Any shared knowledge would be greatly appreciated because no one in my group of shooting buddies has a 338 lm ai. Thanks fellas ahead of time!
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338 lm ai
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T Bone Hunter
New Member
Hi
I am a new member. I own 2 338 Lapua rifles light barrel, not a "ai" my question for you is, are you planning on hunting with your Berger bullets? I am considering making a switch to Berger but have been a Barnes fan. I just purchased some 280gr LRX Boattail Barnes with a .667 BC - need to find a load for this new projectile.
My question regarding the Berger - "Are you planning on using this for hunting" I am concerned about self defence, I spend a lot of time in Grizzly country in Northern BC and if one were to charge, would the bullet have a high chance of exploding on the skull or some other bone and not kill it. I know the Berger is a better flying bullet better BC, just very concerned about 20 yard charging Grizz ...
T Bone Hunter
I am a new member. I own 2 338 Lapua rifles light barrel, not a "ai" my question for you is, are you planning on hunting with your Berger bullets? I am considering making a switch to Berger but have been a Barnes fan. I just purchased some 280gr LRX Boattail Barnes with a .667 BC - need to find a load for this new projectile.
My question regarding the Berger - "Are you planning on using this for hunting" I am concerned about self defence, I spend a lot of time in Grizzly country in Northern BC and if one were to charge, would the bullet have a high chance of exploding on the skull or some other bone and not kill it. I know the Berger is a better flying bullet better BC, just very concerned about 20 yard charging Grizz ...
T Bone Hunter
varmintH8R
Well-Known Member
I think you will find a lot of guys on this site who hunt big game (at distance) with the 300gr Bergers. By all accounts they are game stoppers.
Disclaimer: I've never shot a charging griz at 20yds. But - with 4800 ft lb of energy at 20 yds, I would be pretty confident that a head shot on a griz with a 300gr Berger is going to blow up a lot more than just the bullet. No doubt the Barnes is a tougher bullet, but with the energies we are talking about I think it is almost a moot point.
Good luck out there and stay safe! No Griz in these parts but I'm sure it makes stalking the woods a little more interesting.
Disclaimer: I've never shot a charging griz at 20yds. But - with 4800 ft lb of energy at 20 yds, I would be pretty confident that a head shot on a griz with a 300gr Berger is going to blow up a lot more than just the bullet. No doubt the Barnes is a tougher bullet, but with the energies we are talking about I think it is almost a moot point.
Good luck out there and stay safe! No Griz in these parts but I'm sure it makes stalking the woods a little more interesting.
T Bone Hunter
New Member
Hi VarmintHTR
A few years back I shot a big 52" moose running away from me and hit the animal in the head right at the back of the skull. It went down in a heap, I was shooting the Nosler Balistice Silver Tip 200gr about 100 yards away. The bullet did not even break the hide, but the shock of the hit must of broke the spine or caused the brain to die... This has caused me to be concerned. Once in a life time experience or... not sure. This is my experience to ask this question. True I was not using a Berger but both are thin skin bullets...
T Bone Hunter (heading to the BBQ)
A few years back I shot a big 52" moose running away from me and hit the animal in the head right at the back of the skull. It went down in a heap, I was shooting the Nosler Balistice Silver Tip 200gr about 100 yards away. The bullet did not even break the hide, but the shock of the hit must of broke the spine or caused the brain to die... This has caused me to be concerned. Once in a life time experience or... not sure. This is my experience to ask this question. True I was not using a Berger but both are thin skin bullets...
T Bone Hunter (heading to the BBQ)
azsugarbear
Well-Known Member
If dangerous game at close range is a major factor in your decision, then go with Barnes and don't look back. Most of us are not in the same boat as you. Charging griz is not part of the equation, so Berger tends to win out because of better accuracy, better BC and less expensive than Barnes. The new Nosler Long Range Accubond (when they become available) may be a good compromise between the two.
T Bone Hunter
New Member
Thanks- This is good to hear! I need to work out a load for the 338 LRX 280 gr barnes for my HS Percision hunter Pro 2000 Lapua.
I have a friend who shoots the same gun as me and he has had issues with even the Nosler Partition exploding at close range? He shoots a light bullet like under 200gr. Any news from your group of Lapua shooters? Just wonder if the new Nosler will perform in my neck of the woods?
T-Bone
I have a friend who shoots the same gun as me and he has had issues with even the Nosler Partition exploding at close range? He shoots a light bullet like under 200gr. Any news from your group of Lapua shooters? Just wonder if the new Nosler will perform in my neck of the woods?
T-Bone
azsugarbear
Well-Known Member
What you are ultimately looking for is the same thing we are all looking for: the "Holy Grail" of all bullets. Something that will open reliably at 100 yds and at 1,200 yds. Problem is.....that bullet don't exist....at least, yet.
The Barnes X bullet (TSX, MLRX, etc.) opens reliably with excellent weight retention. The negatives are lower BC, higher $ cost/bullet, and some would argue a little loss in accuracy. They also need a min. velocity of 1,800 fps to open up at all. Lots of pss-throughs at closer ranges, which is great for blood trails, but also implies that not all of the bullet's energy was dumped into the body.
Bergers (VLD's & hybrids) tend to be a little better in accuracy, have a higher BC's and cost less. They tend not to have pass throughs, which implies that all or nearly all of the bullet's energy is dumped in the body. They also tend to "blow-up" at higher velocities and closer targets when they hit bone.
There are pro's and cons to both bullets. berger tends to do better in the LR categories. The Accubond tends to be less expensive than Barnes and about on par with the Bergers. because they are a "bonded" bullet, they don't blow-up at higher velocities when hitting bone at close range. Their downside has been that their BC's, whiloe better than Barnes, tend to fall short of the Bergers. They also require 1,600 to 1,800 fps to open correctly.
The new LR Accubond could be a bit of a game-changer - if you can believe the advertising hype. The new design is more like a VLD, thereby increasing the BC. For example, the 130 gr. Accubond has a stated G1 BC of .488. The new 129 gr. LR Accubond has a stated G1 BC of .561 - a huge improvement. Plus, Nosler claims that the new LR needs only 1,300 fps in velocity in order to expend. If this is true, we just gained another 200 - 300 yards in downrange terminal performance. We will have to wait and see.
The Barnes X bullet (TSX, MLRX, etc.) opens reliably with excellent weight retention. The negatives are lower BC, higher $ cost/bullet, and some would argue a little loss in accuracy. They also need a min. velocity of 1,800 fps to open up at all. Lots of pss-throughs at closer ranges, which is great for blood trails, but also implies that not all of the bullet's energy was dumped into the body.
Bergers (VLD's & hybrids) tend to be a little better in accuracy, have a higher BC's and cost less. They tend not to have pass throughs, which implies that all or nearly all of the bullet's energy is dumped in the body. They also tend to "blow-up" at higher velocities and closer targets when they hit bone.
There are pro's and cons to both bullets. berger tends to do better in the LR categories. The Accubond tends to be less expensive than Barnes and about on par with the Bergers. because they are a "bonded" bullet, they don't blow-up at higher velocities when hitting bone at close range. Their downside has been that their BC's, whiloe better than Barnes, tend to fall short of the Bergers. They also require 1,600 to 1,800 fps to open correctly.
The new LR Accubond could be a bit of a game-changer - if you can believe the advertising hype. The new design is more like a VLD, thereby increasing the BC. For example, the 130 gr. Accubond has a stated G1 BC of .488. The new 129 gr. LR Accubond has a stated G1 BC of .561 - a huge improvement. Plus, Nosler claims that the new LR needs only 1,300 fps in velocity in order to expend. If this is true, we just gained another 200 - 300 yards in downrange terminal performance. We will have to wait and see.
When I had lighter calibers, I packed 2 different bullets. Have one for close up,can me in mag and change position. I shoot the otm, in a Norma,But may try the hunter for the longer 1000+ since it has a thinner jacket. I blew a fist sized hole in a 6x6 in a tight timber shot. A 300 grn. bullet out of the super mags is not really a normal hunting round,at least never use to be.
