338 Edge - Why?

[Waynzee]

Could someone please tell me why a person would need a 338 Edge for deer hunting and killing a deer out to say 800 or 1000 yards when a 6.5-284 will do just as well without all the recoil. Not looking for a pizzing contest, just some practical common sense.

 

[toddc]

Well, I know getting it from me will be kinda funny but I am 100% a 338 kinda guy. Here is why.
1. Deer move WHILE bullets are in the air. I used a 6.5 Creed this year and had 2 deer move on me while the bullet was in air. Able to harvest both with quick follow up from an AR10 BUT with an Edge wouldn't have even needed a 2nd shot.
2. Wind resistance.
3. Power. Hit a deer with a solid body shot and a SMK or Berger or ELD and its gonna be over. I'm not advocating using horsepower to OVERCOME shot placement, BUT a 338 Edge or similar rig will definitely turn a bad hit BETTER.
I have used the Edge since 2000 or so and the 338-378 before that and the 338-416 before that. Just now went to the Lapua for better brass and easier to find and cheaper PER SHOT.
In a perfect world a decent 6.5 or even 6mm will kill deer all day long PAST 1k. However we don't live in a perfect world.
We miss wind calls, deer move, we forget Coriolis or calc spin drift wrong or just plain MESS UP.
I don't mind missing a deer, I do mind wounding one. So if I'm going to hit something I want it to be hit as destructively as possible.
The jump from 6 to 6.5 to 7 to 30 all show an increase in destructive capacity. The jump to a frangible target style 338 running over 2800 is a completely different ball of wax. Kind of like the difference between a 223 and a 300WM. Absolutely devastating.
If you never shoot at anything other than a bedded animal or have some other way to KNOW they wont move, never miss a wind call or never have your rangefinder miss by 40 yds, or never have weather variances or loads vary due to temp or just bad luck then a 6.5 is probably all you will ever need. If not the Edge is a great way to NEVER lose a deer. I have never lost or seen lost a DEER hit with a large target bullet from a 338.
Deer CAN be overpowered with this level of round, its not fashionable to say so but I have seen a ton of deer die with a hit that would require follow up even with a big 30.
Elk are another matter and I don't know of any round that is man portable and will produce these results on that size of animal.
Most deer cant handle a solid body hit with this class of round. I like that as I'm not perfect and the Edge or similar 338 is my INSURANCE POLICY. Yeah people will say there is no replacement for shot placement.....most of them haven't seen hundreds or more deer shot with these rigs.
I hunt out of a truck though, most of my 338s haven't been portable. A lot of people don't want the trade off in portability, blast, recoil and cost. For my style the 338 is PERFECT.

 

[PackersFanboy]

could always put less powder and lighter bullets worried about harvesting more meat

 

[gohring3006]

I agree with Toddc.
It kinda goes with my personal motto... "Always be over prepared,(over gunned can be substituted for the word prepared) and just go with the flow"..
I would rather have too much than not enough... gun)

 

[J E Custom]

Could someone please tell me why a person would need a 338 Edge for deer hunting and killing a deer out to say 800 or 1000 yards when a 6.5-284 will do just as well without all the recoil. Not looking for a pizzing contest, just some practical common sense.

A 338 is not needed, but considering all of the other outside effects, It is a + in many ways.

I am a big believer is having the right cartridge for the job, But not everyone has that many choices
so they use what's available or is there favorite rifle.

Bigger is not bad and in most cases there is less meat damage and where recovery could be rough the 338 is/may be the best choice for conditions.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Plinker147]

+1 What Toddc said.

I love 6.5 and they are my normal go to round for most hunting, but I believe there effective range stops about 800 just my opinion.

The greater wind bucking ability and down range power is why. If I think I will shoot at game past 800 .338 is my choice

 

[Waynzee]

So, the 6.5/284 even with a good bullet would not be as effective as the 338 Edge, ok, and I understand the heavy bullet equals more kinetic energy. Than why all the hype about the 6.5 being a long range round for deer hunting. I was under the impression that the 6.5 was the best wind resistant caliber there is for effective long range hunting.

 

[Varminator 911]

Higher BC and higher velocity equals better wind fighting ability. The 338 bullets have a significant advantage in BC so at decent velocity are better in the wind.

The 6.5 is way better than 25 caliber because of way better bullets. But in general the high BC 338 bullets rule at extreme ranges and to me even 1000 yds is extreme.

 

[Plinker147]

One of the best would be a better term. Assuming high BC bullets of each weight

6.5 w140-5
7mm with 180-195gr
30. with 215-230
.338 with 300

All of these are great combo's for long range. If you crunch the numbers .338 ends up top of list.

Back to your original question it is not necessary to shoot a big 338 with 300 gr bullet but it has its advantages.

Also look at it as which is more likely to hit where you aim if your wind call is off a little

 

[toddc]

So, the 6.5/284 even with a good bullet would not be as effective as the 338 Edge, ok, and I understand the heavy bullet equals more kinetic energy. Than why all the hype about the 6.5 being a long range round for deer hunting. I was under the impression that the 6.5 was the best wind resistant caliber there is for effective long range hunting.

1 word in your post explains it "HYPE".
The 6.5 is a great caliber. However a 7mm up with a identical or BETTER BC will be more effective on GAME than a 6.5.
There is a lot of 6.5 FRENZY right now due to the Creedmoor.
I have run the 6.5 cal since the 80s and the 264 WM. Great case BUT a 7mm RM which is nearly the same case, will with GOOD bullets outrun the 264 at LRH.
Same thing if you jump to 30 cal and even more of it with a jump to 338.
I have swung from a 22-284 to the 6.5 to 7mm to 30 to 338 over the years. Back and forth. ALL will kill at LR IF nothing goes wrong. Just your FUDGE FACTOR is a lot bigger with a 338 than a 22 cal. FUDGES happen in LRH.
I had gone back to the 6.5 in a Creed case recently for a few reasons. Lighter weight. NO RECOIL. Cheap. And it was an AR and I could run it fast on yotes or if shooting multiple does for control. A 20 rd mag from a 2800FPS 6.5 with 143 ELD-X can lay a lot of fur on the ground REAL QUICK.
However I had two deer in a row move on me this yr. I have had it happen before and KNEW it was an issue but we tend to FORGET lessons learned without reinforcement.
I will probably continue to do this as bullet designs and rifles evolve over time, being seduced by the LATEST FAD is easy for us rifle nuts.
However I KNOW in the back of my head that CRAP HAPPENS in LRH and its best to have enough insurance to cover the bet.

All that being said, a 6.5 will kick less, weigh less, be more portable, shorter usually and be more accurate in similar setups.
My 338s all border on the edge of silliness. Most have weighed over 20lbs and some in the 40s. Most guys can't live with this. I can.
A better medium ground for many will be a BIG 7 or 30 for LRH. Has some insurance but doesn't have to be a behemoth.
I went the other way this time and bought a 12 lb 338 that with scope comes in under 14lbs, actually weighs what my Creed does and yet has the muzzle energy of a Creed at 900 plus much better wind resistance, frontal area and just plain destructive capacity.

All LRH is a compromise. Weight, recoil, portability, accuracy, brass availability, power all are a balancing act.
Shoot the biggest, fastest, best BC you can carry and shoot well and that is going to be the BEST BET. Its still gambling though.

I keep going back to the 338 because I feel I OWE it to the GAME. Yeah its a hassle but when I hit one....I want it dead. Right now. I will pay the PRICE of running a 338 for the good of the GAME. People around here think I'm NUTS for shooting what I do but I sleep soundly at night and NEVER have to worry I left a critter suffering in the cold while my fat butt snoozes in bed.

 

[benchracer]

The virtue of the 6.5's for deer sized animals has more to do with balance than it does with raw ballistic performance. The 6.5's are easy to shoot well in carry weight rifles, while offering excellent down range ballistics and good terminal ballistics. I know of some very experienced 6.5 shooters on this site who swear by them for elk and have the track record to back that up. I wouldn't personally be comfortable with a 6.5 for my primary elk rifle, but I don't have their experience, either.

The 6.5's can easily be beaten by 7mm, .30, and .338 class cartridges in both external and terminal ballistics. The tradeoff comes in terms of the size of the cartridge case needed to achieve equivalent external ballistics and the weight of the rifle needed to maintain shootability. A muzzle brake can offset some of the weight issue in the larger calibers, if one can stand the increase in noise and blast. Again, the core issue involves tradeoffs.

I own a .264 Win Mag that would be my first choice for deer or pronghorn sized animals in open country.

I will soon have a .338 under construction that will launch 250's @ 2850+ in a carry weight rifle, only slightly heavier than my .264. It will wear a muzzle brake. If I were hunting elk, it would be my first choice. If I were hunting ANY game animal in brown bear country, it would also get the nod, though I might even consider my .375 for that purpose over my .338.

IMO, the expected application, along with individual shooter tolerances and abilities, should have more to say about cartridge choice than paper ballistics.

 

[toddc]

So, the 6.5/284 even with a good bullet would not be as effective as the 338 Edge, ok, and I understand the heavy bullet equals more kinetic energy. Than why all the hype about the 6.5 being a long range round for deer hunting. I was under the impression that the 6.5 was the best wind resistant caliber there is for effective long range hunting.

The 6.5 is the BEST caliber for STEEL. The recoil to wind ratio with it is most effective in PRS style events. Guys who run a straight 284 or SAUM will argue this and probably have a stronger case actually , but the current PRS scene is 6.5 RULED.
LRH is not PRS. Steel just has to go PING not DIE. 2 different things.

Glad you brought this up Waynzee, 10 yrs ago no one on here was so ENAMORED with the 6.5 and everyone realized horsepower, weight and frontal area mattered in LRH.

The PRS game has gotten a lot of people forgetting that animals move, wind blows and we make mistakes. Dropping a point on steel may hurt your ego really bad, cost you a trophy or even a check. It will NOT hurt anywhere at all like getting gutshot with a caliber that a 338 would have done the job instantaneously.

 

[JTB]

No debate on the issue that the 338 bullet has better kill probability. The debate becomes what are you willing or able to carry over long distances (when applicable), what size game are you hunting and can you shoot the rifle accurately. If you are hunting deer and have to consider a long hike with a deer on the way out, that 15 lbs 338 will be a burden for most hunters. We have never lost a deer with a 6.5 (140gr or larger bullet traveling around 3000 fps) and only one took a second shot but was immobile (all 300-850 yard shots). I have carried my 15 lb 338 Edge on an elk hunt and would not have have been able to carry it and a deer on one of our long hikes. Love my 338 but there is something to be said for a light 6.5 loaded hot and dialed in for deer sized game. Of course other light rifle/caliber combinations will work well but the mid-sized bullet wt./B.C. available in 6.5 offer a compelling option for a relatively flat shooting setup.

 

[toddc]

Rifle selection is so individual its hard to have any kind of BEST DEER RIG.

Where I hunt is mainly prairie with some nasty canyons sprinkled throughout. Its cattle country and farmland.

People drive trucks everywhere. Deer are used to it. Get out of your truck and start walking around...bye bye mature bucks and even does will vacate an area with foot traffic. A deer can pick up your scent trail days later in buffalo grass and will know something isn't right. Deer will ignore a truck for the most part as they are everywhere. People walking are not. We call them mobile heated blinds with tires.

Since I hunt 3 months a year I don't want to freak the area herd out, so I act like a rancher. We can drive on our land so we just pull up to a high point and glass. Even during bow or muzzleloader I rarely try to penetrate their range unless a high percentage stalk is possible. The areas we glass from are very rarely used by deer as they are mesa tops with essentially nothing on them. Mess up one time and a mature buck will be gone AND nocturnal.

This hunting style has caused my rigs to be kind of unique for most people. I usually have a 9-12lb short range (under 1200) rig for quick close shots and then a CANNON for when we have time to deploy it. If I have time I always will run the 338. It's just what I am used to and confident with. I recently tried to pare this down to just 1 rig a 6.5 Creed as I had a guy who wanted my Edge so badly that he was willing to really pay for it....it shot really good. While I didn't lose any critters.....a 6.5 Creed or anything isn't a 338.

Now I am swinging back and probably will sell the Creed as it does nothing really well and will run the 338 and an AR-15 in 6.5 WSSM. Same power, less weight. The AR-10 is too heavy for quick use and yet cant even begin to hang with a 338 at any distance.

I may not even get the AR though if the 14.4lb Lapua can be run off of shooting sticks. I don't like to run a lot of different guns. I like to have ONE rig that I am really familiar with that does its job really well. Hopefully I can use the 338 all of the time now and get rid of the smaller rig. My old 338s all weighed 20lb+ up to 40 and I NEEDED something lighter every once in a while.

And yes I will run the 338 on paper, rocks, porcupines, prairie dogs and water turtles. I don't mind the cost, blast or kick. This lighter one isn't as much fun to shoot as my 40lb rigs, kicks a little but I can live with that. My 9 yr old kid shot his first deer with a 40lb Edge out past 400 yds off of my swiveling table, front rest and bags.
Some people would say what we do isn't hunting but shooting. They would want to get out and walk all over. The third day they were there, they would see 1/10 the deer they saw the first day. I know this because I have done it.

The way I hunt would be strange to 90% of people. Makes no sense to someone from Georgia or the mountains either. Here, it works like a charm and is a ton of fun.