300 Win Mag advice needed

AvidHunterAbe

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
33
Location
Littleton, CO
Hey all, I am having a bit of a load development struggle.
I am running a Remington 700 Sendero 300 Win Mag 1:10 twist, I HAD this rifle dialed in with 178 grain ELD-Xs w/ 72 grains of H3841sc, WLRM primer (1/2MOA all day). I am unable to source those bullets and have been looking for them for way too long, so I decided to switch to 200 grain ELD-xs with regular H4831 because this is what I could get my hands on.

The issue: I can NOT get this combo to shoot decent groups, ran through the powder ladder, found my node. Groups were sub par and well over MOA, ES was terrible as well, 50+ during seating depth testing. Obviously there was no good groups to be had during the seating depth test and the ES sucked also.

Ammo: Loaded on an Area 419 Zero Press, tight tight tolerances, 3x fired brass, cleaned, AMP annealed, FL Sized with no stem in it, Ran in LE Wilson Mandrel, powders weight down to .02 accuracy with A&D. I have gone as far as I can to make my ammo as precise as possible without going insanse.

Possibilities:

Barrel Burnt Out? - Rifle has 4-500 rounds through it. 500 is a stretch, realistically we are in the very low 400s at best but I don't have them logged as I never kept track of these loads until I became more data driven and have had this rifle for years. I will have this rifle bore scoped this coming week, though I HIGHLY doubt it is shot out.

H4831 is the wrong powder for a 200 grain ELD-X? Go H1000? I have heard that 4831 is problematic at 200 grains and up bullets, anyone have advice or experience with this?

Barrel doesn't like the bullets? Not well versed enough in reloading to make this claim myself, I "hear" that a good rifle will shoot any bullet good, and some bullets really well.

What am I missing?

Do I switch bullets or powder? I don't have it in me to give up and just build another rifle so at this moment, that is not an option.
 

badthirtyone

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Nov 26, 2007
Messages
755
Location
Denver Colorado
Abe,

I've had good to great luck with 200+ gr bullets in 300WM using H4831. While it is not what most would argue is the best powder for that application, some of my best groups have been shot by loads developed with H4831 and Berger 210's. Yes, H1000 is a "better" powder for your 300, but unless you are sitting on a keg of that, I wouldn't be super disappointed with the 4831.

I would think that your barrel is certainly not shot out at that round count, so I think you can (as much as possible) remove that from the equation.

One of your issues may simply be that your particular rifle/throat/other specific variables - does not like that combo or bullet.

It is repeated here quite often (and most correctly) that you have to figure out the best combo - especially bullet - for YOUR gun.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you may have to continue the hunt for a different bullet, or at least, be willing to put in a bunch of work to possibly get the results you are hoping for with what you have.
 

JTH

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Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
144
Location
Wisconsin
I’ve got a 1 in 10 twist barrel on my 300 win, it couldn’t stabilize bullets bigger than 180 grains, including the 200 grain ELD-X (Tried and failed). The Hodgdon reloading data center lists H4831SC as an option for 200 grain bullets, so I don’t think the powder is the issue. I think your twist rate might be the issue, not compatible with the big heavy bullets.

I’d take a look at bullets in the 160 - 180 grain range and push them hard. The Hammer Hunter line in 166, 174 or 180 grain, would be good options. I’ve also had great results with the 180 Swift scirocco II on elk and deer, many bang flops out to 550 yards. I’m currently running the Absolute Hammer 178 grain with H4350 and safely getting 3,280 FPS out of a 24” barrel. Grouping 0.4 MOA. Terminal results are outstanding. The Hammer bullets are usually very easy to tune, and the best part is they are readily available, usually on your doorstep within a week. I’m not a rep for them, just a very satisfied customer 😊
 

ShtrRdy

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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
3,777
Location
High Plains
I doubt that your barrel is toast yet with under 500 rounds. I've had good experiences with H1000 behind a 200 grainer. (Nosler Accubond in my case) some people have had difficulty getting the ELD-X to shoot well.

Since your at 5000'+ elevation I would think stabilizing a 200 grain is fine.

It might be time to try a different bullet with H4831.
 

FEENIX

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Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
17,606
Location
Great Falls, MT
Possibilities:

Barrel Burnt Out? - Rifle has 4-500 rounds through it. 500 is a stretch, realistically we are in the very low 400s at best but I don't have them logged as I never kept track of these loads until I became more data driven and have had this rifle for years. I will have this rifle bore scoped this coming week, though I HIGHLY doubt it is shot out.
I agree!
Possibilities:

H4831 is the wrong powder for a 200 grain ELD-X? Go H1000? I have heard that 4831 is problematic at 200 grains and up bullets, anyone have advice or experience with this?
I have three .300 WM, and the H4831SC is my go-to powder. H1000 is an excellent powder to try. If you have other powders in similar burnt rates, it might be worth your time.
Possibilities:

Barrel doesn't like the bullets? Not well versed enough in reloading to make this claim myself, I "hear" that a good rifle will shoot any bullet good, and some bullets really well.

What am I missing?

Do I switch bullets or powder? I don't have it in me to give up and just build another rifle so at this moment, that is not an option.
Sometimes the barrels are finicky and do not like a certain bullet powder combination. I would try another powder first. Change one component at a time.

Good luck!

Ed
 

kfreeze

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Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
539
Location
cambridge, mn
Hey all, I am having a bit of a load development struggle.
I am running a Remington 700 Sendero 300 Win Mag 1:10 twist, I HAD this rifle dialed in with 178 grain ELD-Xs w/ 72 grains of H3841sc, WLRM primer (1/2MOA all day). I am unable to source those bullets and have been looking for them for way too long, so I decided to switch to 200 grain ELD-xs with regular H4831 because this is what I could get my hands on.

The issue: I can NOT get this combo to shoot decent groups, ran through the powder ladder, found my node. Groups were sub par and well over MOA, ES was terrible as well, 50+ during seating depth testing. Obviously there was no good groups to be had during the seating depth test and the ES sucked also.

Ammo: Loaded on an Area 419 Zero Press, tight tight tolerances, 3x fired brass, cleaned, AMP annealed, FL Sized with no stem in it, Ran in LE Wilson Mandrel, powders weight down to .02 accuracy with A&D. I have gone as far as I can to make my ammo as precise as possible without going insanse.

Possibilities:

Barrel Burnt Out? - Rifle has 4-500 rounds through it. 500 is a stretch, realistically we are in the very low 400s at best but I don't have them logged as I never kept track of these loads until I became more data driven and have had this rifle for years. I will have this rifle bore scoped this coming week, though I HIGHLY doubt it is shot out.

H4831 is the wrong powder for a 200 grain ELD-X? Go H1000? I have heard that 4831 is problematic at 200 grains and up bullets, anyone have advice or experience with this?

Barrel doesn't like the bullets? Not well versed enough in reloading to make this claim myself, I "hear" that a good rifle will shoot any bullet good, and some bullets really well.

What am I missing?

Do I switch bullets or powder? I don't have it in me to give up and just build another rifle so at this moment, that is not an option.
Anytime you have that going on, just change something. I usually change powder first. If a load doesn't shoot 3/4" at 100 or better right away, I stop and change something right away. I don't like loads that are real picky and take a lot of work to make shoot acceptable accuracy. I your case I would start over with h1000, n565, or rl26. Maybe even n570. Depending on what you have or what you can get.
 

Teri Anne

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May 24, 2021
Messages
190
Location
Wisconsin
To think that your barrel is shot out because it doesn't shoot well without your pet load is more than a bit premature. I constantly try different loads out in all of my rifles .270, .308, 30-06 and 300 WM. all while attempting to get a tighter group, although all of them are well under 1 moa. Please note that all of my rifles are out of the box with the exception of the 300 WM, which I had a muzzle brake installed before I sent the first round down the barrel. Although bullets do make a big difference powder type and charge all vary. It is an almost never ending quest to get the group smaller. I have found that each of the barrels are finicky both with powder type and bullet design. Don't think that your quest to find something other than your ELD-X will not work. There are most likely many different bullets that will shoot less than 1 moa out there, but you have to be patient. Speaking of patience, I work in the firearms department at Cabelas and have already seen a new influx of both ammunition in the most popular calibers as well as bullets to include your ELD-X 178 gr going on the shelves. If you want to try something I have found amazing try the new all copper bullets. I tried the Barns TSX 165 gr in both the .308 and the 30-06 and reduced the size of my groups to slightly bigger than the size of the bullet at 0.4 inches for 3 shot groups. Superb accuracy but I'm not all that sure I want to use an all copper bullet when hunting yet. Does anyone have any experience with all copper bullet performance on Deer or Antelope?
 

Sending156s

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Joined
Feb 9, 2019
Messages
302
Location
Ozark Mountains
Hey all, I am having a bit of a load development struggle.
I am running a Remington 700 Sendero 300 Win Mag 1:10 twist, I HAD this rifle dialed in with 178 grain ELD-Xs w/ 72 grains of H3841sc, WLRM primer (1/2MOA all day). I am unable to source those bullets and have been looking for them for way too long, so I decided to switch to 200 grain ELD-xs with regular H4831 because this is what I could get my hands on.

The issue: I can NOT get this combo to shoot decent groups, ran through the powder ladder, found my node. Groups were sub par and well over MOA, ES was terrible as well, 50+ during seating depth testing. Obviously there was no good groups to be had during the seating depth test and the ES sucked also.

Ammo: Loaded on an Area 419 Zero Press, tight tight tolerances, 3x fired brass, cleaned, AMP annealed, FL Sized with no stem in it, Ran in LE Wilson Mandrel, powders weight down to .02 accuracy with A&D. I have gone as far as I can to make my ammo as precise as possible without going insanse.

Possibilities:

Barrel Burnt Out? - Rifle has 4-500 rounds through it. 500 is a stretch, realistically we are in the very low 400s at best but I don't have them logged as I never kept track of these loads until I became more data driven and have had this rifle for years. I will have this rifle bore scoped this coming week, though I HIGHLY doubt it is shot out.

H4831 is the wrong powder for a 200 grain ELD-X? Go H1000? I have heard that 4831 is problematic at 200 grains and up bullets, anyone have advice or experience with this?

Barrel doesn't like the bullets? Not well versed enough in reloading to make this claim myself, I "hear" that a good rifle will shoot any bullet good, and some bullets really well.

What am I missing?

Do I switch bullets or powder? I don't have it in me to give up and just build another rifle so at this moment, that is not an option.
190 & 200 SMKs grain magic in 300 WM. Pushing 190s with 78.0 RL-26 at close to 3200 - LabRadar around 3170. It’s a bughole shooter. This is a custom w/ 26” Bartlein RH 10 twist.
190 SMKs & H1000 is a go load also.
Hope you get all worked out. Until rl-26 I have never used anything except h1000
 

fmuguira

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Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
614
I ve had poor results with the eld x in 2 out of 3 calibers. 6mm shot sub moa, 6.5mm and 7mm shot poorly. No experience with 30 cal X s.

Eldm s have all shot well in same calibers across multiple cartridges. Might try a known easy to tune bullet with that H4831 and see what happens ….. guessing your accuracy will be back.
 

kfreeze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
539
Location
cambridge, mn
To think that your barrel is shot out because it doesn't shoot well without your pet load is more than a bit premature. I constantly try different loads out in all of my rifles .270, .308, 30-06 and 300 WM. all while attempting to get a tighter group, although all of them are well under 1 moa. Please note that all of my rifles are out of the box with the exception of the 300 WM, which I had a muzzle brake installed before I sent the first round down the barrel. Although bullets do make a big difference powder type and charge all vary. It is an almost never ending quest to get the group smaller. I have found that each of the barrels are finicky both with powder type and bullet design. Don't think that your quest to find something other than your ELD-X will not work. There are most likely many different bullets that will shoot less than 1 moa out there, but you have to be patient. Speaking of patience, I work in the firearms department at Cabelas and have already seen a new influx of both ammunition in the most popular calibers as well as bullets to include your ELD-X 178 gr going on the shelves. If you want to try something I have found amazing try the new all copper bullets. I tried the Barns TSX 165 gr in both the .308 and the 30-06 and reduced the size of my groups to slightly bigger than the size of the bullet at 0.4 inches for 3 shot groups. Superb accuracy but I'm not all that sure I want to use an all copper bullet when hunting yet. Does anyone have any experience with all copper bullet performance on Deer or Antelope?
Yes. I only shoot deer in MN with barnes 150 tsx in my 30-06. They work great for it because shots are under 200 yds and they do a lot of damage without blowing up like a lot of lead bullets do.
 

BFD Guns

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Joined
Mar 2, 2020
Messages
860
Location
Illinois
I have two Savage 110 300 WM rifles.
Savage 110 Elite Precision 30" barrel 1:10 twist
Savage 110 High Country 24" barrel 1:10 twist.

We all have heard barrels are like unique tuning forks. So here are the best combos I found for my forks.

Savage 110 HC:

Successful combos printing sub minute:

70-75 F. 750 FT ABSL

200 Accubond
75.5 H1000
WLRM
PPU brass (Prvi Partizan)
MV: 2920 fps

200 Accubond
71.3 RL-23
WLRM
PPU Brass
MV: 2940 fps
Jump .120"

I plowed through 150 rounds trying to get 212 ELDX to work with H1000, 7977, RL-23, XMR4350. Accubonds took only 20 rounds with H1000.

Savage Elite Precision:

208gr Amax
77gr RL-25
WLRM
PPU brass
MV: 3050 fps
Jump: .003"

Tried H1000 and RL-25. I got lucky and found my standard load with RL-25. First 5 shot group with the 77gr of RL-25 sub minute. Subsequent 5 shot groups have been the same. I stopped experimenting with H1000 due to RL-25 working so well and the current availability of powders and components. (No joy with H1000 75.5-77gr)

Sounds like your loading equipment and procedures are far more meticulous/insane than mine. LOL. You just got to keep trial and error. I found switching bullets makes a greater difference in results than powders. I select a bullet and try various powders. If that bullet isn't starting off with one of the loadings printing MOA I switch bullets. You get to see a trend with different powders on the same bullet whether that be good or bad. I have also found a barrel bullet combo likes a certain velocity band with various powders. Not always the case, but more than not.
 
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