280ai & 168 vld

[Slopeshunter]

Hello everyone,

I've done some reading and searching on the site related to the subject of my thread.
I am using H4831sc and from what I've read it looks like 58 grains is around max. Can anyone confirm this for me. I am using Fed 215M primers.

Thanks everyone, safe hunting this fall.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Hello everyone,

I've done some reading and searching on the site related to the subject of my thread.
I am using H4831sc and from what I've read it looks like 58 grains is around max. Can anyone confirm this for me. I am using Fed 215M primers.

Thanks everyone, safe hunting this fall.

Need some more info.... What's your case length, coal, barrel length, and twist?

With default values for the factors above.... This is what quickload returned. Data will probably be skewed to one side... But I think you can make out the details.

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch or 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 27.0 inch or 685.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 77 46.40 2247 1884 28039 7675 87.2 1.814
-18.0 79 47.56 2303 1978 29860 7934 88.5 1.768
-16.0 81 48.72 2358 2075 31801 8189 89.8 1.722
-14.0 83 49.88 2414 2174 33868 8437 91.0 1.678
-12.0 85 51.04 2470 2277 36075 8678 92.1 1.634
-10.0 87 52.20 2527 2381 38429 8911 93.2 1.589
-08.0 89 53.36 2583 2489 40942 9136 94.2 1.542
-06.0 91 54.52 2639 2599 43629 9350 95.1 1.497
-04.0 93 55.68 2696 2711 46502 9554 95.9 1.454
-02.0 94 56.84 2752 2826 49577 9747 96.7 1.412
+00.0 96 58.00 2809 2943 52871 9927 97.4 1.371 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 98 59.16 2865 3062 56404 10093 98.0 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 100 60.32 2921 3184 60180 10246 98.5 1.295 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 102 61.48 2978 3307 64210 10384 99.0 1.258 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 104 62.64 3034 3433 68535 10506 99.4 1.223 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 106 63.80 3090 3561 73183 10611 99.7 1.189 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 58.00 2943 3231 63126 9835 99.9 1.273 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 58.00 2632 2583 43271 9525 90.8 1.498

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

With a. 24" barrel... A charge of 58 puts you at 2729 fps and pressure at 52871.

Hope you can extrapolate from there as the default was for a 27" barrel.

 

[trebark]

Consider going with H1000 rather than H4831. For my 280Rem, I shoot WLR primer, 59grains of H1000 and 168Berger hybrid (COAL is 3.34). It sends them at 2750+ out of a 24" barrel. Given your larger case capacity, you might even consider Retumbo.

jboscobuys seems like a really nice guy. Give him your rifle specs and maybe he will run some quickload data for you with H4831, H1000 and Retumbo.

 

[Slopeshunter]

Thanks for the info. Barrel is 24", coal 3.34, twist 1:9. I do have retumbo available to me just referenced the H4831sc as it seems to be the powder that came up the most with my searching.
Cheers!

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Thanks for the info. Barrel is 24", coal 3.34, twist 1:9. I do have retumbo available to me just referenced the H4831sc as it seems to be the powder that came up the most with my searching.
Cheers!

Heya Slopes... Using your data... Ran the 3 powders mentioned in the thread, though I did adjust the initial powder load for each so that the data would display maximum loads not to use. Your velocity will vary... and correspondingly your pressure if you have a fast barrel... So I would chrono a few rounds using one of the charges listed so you have an idea of where your max might really be. I always use the velocity listed at or near max pressure from quikload as a reference of where to stop, instead of the actual grain recommendations, as I have a very fast barrel in my 308 and using the near max velocity as a stopping point, seems to be a better inidicator of pressure than just using their suggest grain recommendations.

Lastly... It looks like for both retumbo and h1000, the loads are fairly compressed towards your maximum.... the retumbo at 109% fill just to reach near max and the h1000 at 105% fill to reach your near max.

Good luck man and I hope you find a nice wide accurate node that will treat you kindly.


Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 77 46.40 2169 1755 27932 8610 85.4 1.704
-18.0 79 47.56 2223 1844 29743 8916 86.8 1.660
-16.0 81 48.72 2278 1936 31672 9218 88.1 1.617
-14.0 83 49.88 2334 2031 33716 9514 89.4 1.575
-12.0 85 51.04 2389 2129 35918 9803 90.6 1.534
-10.0 87 52.20 2445 2229 38257 10084 91.7 1.491
-08.0 88 53.36 2500 2332 40754 10357 92.8 1.446
-06.0 90 54.52 2556 2438 43421 10620 93.8 1.404
-04.0 92 55.68 2613 2546 46273 10872 94.8 1.363
-02.0 94 56.84 2669 2657 49326 11112 95.7 1.323
+00.0 96 58.00 2725 2770 52581 11339 96.5 1.284 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 98 59.16 2782 2886 56098 11552 97.2 1.247 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 100 60.32 2838 3004 59842 11750 97.8 1.211 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 102 61.48 2894 3125 63836 11931 98.4 1.176 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 104 62.64 2951 3248 68121 12096 98.9 1.142 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 106 63.80 3007 3373 72725 12242 99.3 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 58.00 2863 3059 62788 11360 99.7 1.190 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 58.00 2547 2420 43049 10767 89.3 1.405

--------------------------------------------------

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Retumbo
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 84 50.40 2077 1610 22918 9056 84.9 1.831
-18.0 86 51.66 2135 1701 24415 9449 86.9 1.785
-16.0 88 52.92 2194 1796 26019 9832 88.7 1.739
-14.0 90 54.18 2254 1895 27739 10203 90.4 1.694
-12.0 92 55.44 2314 1998 29582 10560 92.1 1.650
-10.0 95 56.70 2375 2105 31560 10899 93.6 1.606
-08.0 97 57.96 2437 2215 33684 11217 94.9 1.564
-06.0 99 59.22 2499 2330 35968 11513 96.1 1.522
-04.0 101 60.48 2561 2447 38423 11782 97.2 1.476
-02.0 103 61.74 2624 2568 41072 12024 98.1 1.429
+00.0 105 63.00 2686 2691 43927 12236 98.8 1.383
+02.0 107 64.26 2748 2818 47012 12416 99.4 1.339
+04.0 109 65.52 2811 2947 50347 12561 99.8 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 111 66.78 2872 3078 53959 12671 100.0 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 113 68.04 2934 3211 57878 12745 100.0 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 116 69.30 2995 3346 62136 12807 100.0 1.176 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 63.00 2854 3039 54129 11798 100.0 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 63.00 2452 2243 35363 11553 90.1 1.532

--------------------------------------


Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 83 48.80 2101 1646 24813 8608 83.1 1.771
-18.0 85 50.02 2158 1737 26463 8959 84.8 1.725
-16.0 87 51.24 2215 1831 28231 9304 86.5 1.680
-14.0 89 52.46 2274 1929 30126 9642 88.1 1.635
-12.0 91 53.68 2333 2031 32161 9970 89.6 1.591
-10.0 93 54.90 2393 2137 34344 10288 91.1 1.548
-08.0 95 56.12 2454 2246 36693 10592 92.4 1.506
-06.0 97 57.34 2514 2358 39220 10882 93.7 1.460
-04.0 99 58.56 2576 2475 41943 11155 94.8 1.413
-02.0 101 59.78 2637 2594 44879 11409 95.9 1.368
+00.0 103 61.00 2699 2718 48052 11643 96.8 1.324
+02.0 105 62.22 2761 2844 51485 11855 97.7 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 107 63.44 2823 2973 55205 12043 98.4 1.241 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 110 64.66 2886 3106 59242 12205 99.0 1.202 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 65.88 2948 3241 63634 12340 99.4 1.163 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 67.10 3010 3380 68423 12446 99.7 1.126 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 103 61.00 2861 3054 58367 11536 100.0 1.216 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 103 61.00 2486 2306 39115 10912 88.1 1.462

 

[Slopeshunter]

jboscobuys, thanks for running these. much appreciated!

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Oh... and Slopes... I've never used compressed loads, so perhaps someone here can provide information on how much compression is actually ok. I think I might be Leary of compressing my loads as much as listed above from quikload without someone experienced with it giving me some parameters as to what is safe... and what isn't.

Just my 2 cents. Best wishes!

 

[trebark]

Compressed loads with H1000 and Retumbo are not a big issue. For my 7saum, I load 110% loads of retumbo and my buddy with a 7saum does the same (our powder charges are different because my rifle is a long-action and therefore bullets seated waaay out and his is on a short action so he is constrained to mag length). Regardless, QL tells us that our charges are 110% loads. We actually think that a compressed load produces a lower ES.

Like any load development, start on the lower end and work your way up. jboscobuys offers a good piece of advice in that you should watch for typical pressure signs like ejector marks and stiff bolt lift but also use a chrono (you should ALWAYS use a chrono in load development) to monitor velocities and see how your real world velocities match up with QL data.

 

[stanley52]

Hello everyone,

I've done some reading and searching on the site related to the subject of my thread.
I am using H4831sc and from what I've read it looks like 58 grains is around max. Can anyone confirm this for me. I am using Fed 215M primers.

Thanks everyone, safe hunting this fall.

I use BR-2 primers, 58.5gr H4831sc, bushing .002 undersized neck tensions and the bullet .002 off the lands and I do not have issues. Gets about 2815 fps in a 1:9 26" bartlein 5r MTU. Around 59gr and I had punctured primers till I had my firing pin turned and the hole made to be smaller, now even that's not a problem. No other pressure signs.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

jboscobuys, thanks for running these. much appreciated!

You bet slopes. I've had my fair share of help and if running a few numbers helps a fellow lrh'er, I still owe a but load of assistance! . Good shooting man!!

 

[trebark]

I use BR-2 primers, 58.5gr H4831sc, bushing .002 undersized neck tensions and the bullet .002 off the lands and I do not have issues. Gets about 2815 fps in a 1:9 26" bartlein 5r MTU. Around 59gr and I had punctured primers till I had my firing pin turned and the hole made to be smaller, now even that's not a problem. No other pressure signs.

This load fits right into the QL data that was posted earlier (the H4831 data where barrel length is 27") where 58grains 'should' produce 2809fps. QL is an amazing program.

 

[cowboy]

Just a word of caution when working up a load for any Ackley cartridge. Pressure may not show up slightly - then bam - your over. The advise the above guys are giving you on using a chrony is even more important IMO on an AI cartridge. Work up gradually and be realistic on what velocity you will be satisfied with - your rifle will tell you where it wants to shoot at what velocity.

I have run a 280AI, 25" Kreiger, fed 210M primers, H4831sc with 168 berger VLD's at 2840 fps for close to 1000 rounds with no problem. My son started out with H4831sc, switched to RL22 (he learned what temp sensitive means with powder), and is now using Retumbo with fed 215M and 168 VLD's on his 280AI. If your going to use H1000 or Retumbo you might want to get yourself a long extended funnel and pour your powder into the case gradually - you will be surprised how easy it is to align the powder kernels in the case on a compressed load.

After seeing what Retumbo does in his 280AI, I would seriously consider it if I didn't have 2 - 8# jugs of H4831sc with the same lot number.

 

[Slopeshunter]

Thanks again everyone. I do shoot over a chrony and have one of those long funnels, works great a gettin those grains in there! Cheers