.223 w/Cannelure loading

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by thumbs, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. thumbs

    thumbs Well-Known Member

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    When seating the bullet w/cannelure shouldn't the bullet be seated to the cannelure? I know you have to check for oal but in general doesn't that work pretty close to the cannelure?

    thanks
     
  2. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    No,
    Seat bullets to a depth that produces best accuracy
     
  3. Gunpoor

    Gunpoor Well-Known Member

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    Thumbs, when I load rifle ammo I ignore the cannelure. When loading pistol rounds, especially revolver, I crimp case mouths into the cannelure. A cannelure groove in a rifle bullet is there to help keep the guilding metal jacket from separating from the lead core in spitzer style bullets.
     
  4. thumbs

    thumbs Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys

    If you don't want to read all of this just jump to the last paragraph.

    Here is the reason I ask. I first loaded to the length of factory ammo. I did a bunch because I was headed west and wanted to wack a few PD's. Long story good times but not the amount of ammo I expected to use. I have quite a bit left. In trying to learn a bit more about loading for the .223 I started reading about this jump thing. I measured my breach and found my oal was way short for the length of the breach. I loaded maybe 100 or so a little shorter than the breach measurement. The original loads were seated to the cannelure. The newer ones were way short of the cannelure and still not the length the book says is min. I took the new ones out and they shot like crap. All over at 100yards. My original loads that were factory length shoot pretty well. I know you guys don't want to talk numbers on loads but lets say the first loads that were factory ammo length were way short of the min oal in the load books. Is this a problem??? Also I had some ftf with the new loads. Never had ftf before.

    I can't chamber a round that is the suggested min oal in my AR SW sport. When I do I can't pull it out using the charging handle I have to shoot it out. I am guessing the bullet is being forced into the rifling and can't be dislodged using the charging handle.But my oal is way short of the min oal in two load books. The longer rounds shoot like crap. The short ones shoot fine. Is this a problem pressure wise?? Oh my cases are just under max oal.

    thanks for the help
     
  5. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    With properly trimmed brass (in a bottleneck case) somewhere in the cannelure land margin will be the seating depth for Sammi spec, providing again the case is trimmed correctly.

    A pilll has a cannelure for the sole purpose of loacating and securing the pill against recoil of the weapon so the pill don't retract or extend in the case mouth during violent (full auto fire), something you don't need to be concerned with, unless you hold the proper FFL license, however, it also secures the pills when they are jouncing around in your pocket. No crimp relies on case neck tension which may (or may not be enough) FYI, I crimp ALL my handloads, whatever caliber straight wall and bottleneck.

    A cannelure has nothing to do with jacket retention at all. If a pill sheds it's jacket, it's time to scrap them all and get a quality bukket.

    Because the cannelure is at the ideal Sammi seat depth, seating for maximum accuracy may or may not be in the cannulure groove but contrary to the previous comment. each and every different weapon/barrel combination likes the seating depth in a different spot, so 'loading to the lands' or close to may not be that best accuracy ticket in every case, in fact, in most cases, it will not hold true.

    Lots of infor mation on the net, you have to weigh it all for quality and most is intelaced with personal opinion, which means relatively nothing (opinion wide_.
     
  6. Gunpoor

    Gunpoor Well-Known Member

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    Thumbs, you are saying exactly what I was trying to get across to you, in that the length of your cartridge has to fit the chamber you are loading for and doesn't have anything to do with the cannelure on the bullet. Load them to work in your rifle, period.

    SCF, I don't usually say anything about comments from other posters but I can't keep my mouth shut about yours. You are FOS.
     
  7. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Whatever. Why I as a rule don't reply to threads such as this one.

    BTW, I'm not, I did that earlier this morning on the porcelan god. Left ya in the bowl and flushed ya.
     
  8. thumbs

    thumbs Well-Known Member

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    Ok let me get down and dirty on this.

    No matter what the min oal that is stated in the book, using the power and bullets specified,load to the length that shoots well in your rifle right??

    I was just afraid that if I seated the bullet a little low it would create to much pressure. Still trying to figure my best depth but I know it's a lot shorter than the book says the minimum length is. The ones that shoot best are loaded to the cannelure. The book length puts the cannelure much higher on the brass. When loading to the length of factory rounds I have they shoot and cycle a lot better than the book numbers.
     
  9. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    It all gets a lot easier when you stop minding a book, and consider what you actually have in your hand.
    You can begin with a slightly reduced load (from popular) and run Berger's seating tests(pinned here).
    http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...accuracy-berger-vld-bullets-your-rifle-40204/
    You won't see pressure go up until you seat bullet bearing into neck-shoulder junction, or put the bullet against the lands. Avoid the neck-shoulder junction(donut) as there is nothing good to be found there.
     
  10. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying don't seat the base of the bullet so deep that it extends back to the neck/shoulder junction, because it might get pinched in the chamber where the dreaded thickened donut form in the case neck?
     
  11. thumbs

    thumbs Well-Known Member

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    Hey thanks it was a pretty good read. I am reasonably new to this stuff or at least trying to delve deeper into it. The long and the short of the letter seems to be start out at the lands, or even jam the lands, and back off until you find the sweet spot. Now this is for their bullets. I have another brand so I think I will stay off the lands entirely. Thats kinda what I was going to do. I will measure the chamber again. Funny my coal is about .040 off the lands now and they shoot pretty well. Now I haven't shot them seriously for accuracy, so they may get better or worse in the process but I know the ones just off the lands shoot like crap. I have taken PD's at over 200 yards with them though so they have to be reasonably close as they are. I think I may run a batch in .010 increments then zero in from there.

    Oh if I am missing something or am not on the right track here chime in and let me know.

    thanks again for the link