1st AG Composites order

[.300 Dakota]

Just the facts here. Not stating I'm mad or they're wrong. Not saying anything other than this was the exchange between myself and the Spokesperson for AG Customer Service. Photos attached that I sent them. Each one can make up their own mind if I should have even contacted them or not. Maybe I'm totally wrong for having done so. Maybe my issues aren't bad as long as I got something in a reasonable amount of time. Everything you need to know is in the exchange below. Copy and paste from my email today.



Order # EI131

I received my first AG custom ordered stock Friday night. Great communication and a nice personal touch in reminding me it was on the way and when it would be delivered.

It is truly a beautiful stock, and the color scheme would be perfect for hunting in my area. My problem is that the barrel channel was inlet for the Proof Sendero contour, NOT the Proof Sendero LITE that I ordered and was invoiced. The barrel I have is .800" straight taper from 6" past the shank. I allowed for a decent gap around the barrel to ensure ease of free floating by ordering the Lite version, which is still a little wider than .800". The channel on the stock I received is massive and swallows the .800" barrel completely. I have a .900" Benchmark carbon Fiber barrel that went into this thing with about enough excess space around that as I'd wanted around the intended barrel in the intended Sendero Lite inlet. Pictures attached. So a beautiful stock, it truly is, and it's a shame I can't use it unless I order a new barrel with much larger contour, which I have found - and it's 32" long at .900". The idea was to have a mid-weight, nicely balanced rifle. This is a wildcat caliber. A rare .277 caliber barrel is required in a fast twist. Aggressive fluting was going to bring the weight of the intended barrel to within spec, so it would balance relatively well in the Alpine Hunter stock. With this other barrel available, it is going to be so top heavy, I'll need a tripod to support the forend. Not to mention the additional $500 cost of another new barrel. Offhand shooting will be out of the question.

That's my only option without waiting months. Unless I can get Pure Precision to custom cut me another one of your blanks they call the Altitude in about 4 weeks (optimistic) that will correctly fit the barrel I need to use. Maybe I can use this thing for something besides a paperweight sometime before I die or have to sell off my collection due to age and health. Had the same thing happen with McMillan, except they inlet for a short action rather than a long that they even invoiced correctly.

I would also like to warn you not to allow whoever packaged this thing to wrap Christmas gifts at the company Christmas party. It's more than a small miracle it even made it here, and especially with the bottom metal still inside. They should understand you have to pull the opening between the top box flaps together before sticking a single piece of tape down the center, which will not hold onto a small fraction of an inch of cardboard when not closed together before taping. If the pieces across had not held, I'd have no idea that this was even a miscommunication between orders receiving and production.

Good help is darn near impossible to find nowadays, regardless of what business you're in. Unfortunately, every company operating here has to settle for the employee who is willing to come to work sometimes, and actually complete some work on some days. That's why we have foreign labor taking jobs. Thank God for them, or we'd never have anything made anymore to any degree of craftsmanship or even mediocre quality.

I've had so many orders like this fall through the cracks and come to me unusable, I can't even begin to count them all. I have now come to expect problems with each and every order. To that end, my expectations here were met. If I find companies who deliver exactly what was intended, I keep using them and recommend them highly on many national forums and local events. I don't have many on that list. It is exceptionally rare now, though was commonplace 40 - 45 years ago. The only question then was who would give you the best price and/or use the best materials.

I design new cartridges and the guns in which to fire them. I can't meet deadlines or testing dates because issues like this are so plentiful. Still working on my list of reliable suppliers. I will, no doubt, be looking for a real job soon. I don't know much about stock-making, but I do know how to correctly package items for shipping. I can guarantee if you hired me that you'd never get a complaint about loose packaging ever again. I can also eyeball a barrel channel and action inlet and tell if it's a long or short action and whether it's a Proof Sendero contour barrel channel inlet or a 3B or a Remington Sporter, or Sendero Lite in the QA department. I work 7 days most weeks and do lots of traveling for work. I have an extremely high work ethic, haven't missed a day in enough years I can't recall the last time, and a strong desire to get it right. If you have an opening come available, I think I am qualified to improve your business once I go bankrupt in mine trying to build new guns and cartridges.

Merry Christmas, and I wish God's richest blessings to you all. Sincerely. Especially the nice person who sent me a personal text with a heads up on delivery of my beautiful paperweight. I know your business is thriving and this little issue is totally meanless. I don't really have any expectations following this message. Even if you offered to remake the stock with correct channel inlet, the time needed would be too great. I may can put enough weight inside the buttstock to counter balance the huge replacement barrel, but it would require actual cement being poured inside and allowed to dry. (Specialty barrels are usually made in single runs a year by the reputable makers. That's months out if I don't get the one available.) Weight would be 10 pounds out of range, at least.

You do a great job on the stocks from Pure Precision (formerly Mesa Precision), Remington (Alpha 1), Weatherby, and my Privateer I got from a 3rd party retailer last year. This one not working was a dagger for my design. Hopefully you always have plenty of happy customers and never have to deal with the likes of me and my one-off project.

Photos NOW attached.
--

3 attachments
Attachment20251205_195605.jpg
Attachment20251205_201932.jpg
Attachment1ce5f82c-cb58-4d93-9f33-a77a132a2965.jpg
S
[email protected]
to me
5 hours agoDetails
Good morning,
We get packages in from UPS all the time that look like they have been run over by a truck. I can assure you that your package did not leave our building looking like that. We are glad your stock was not damaged. Hope you have a Merry Christmas.
Staci
AG Composites

 

[Huntaddict]

Just the facts here. Not stating I'm mad or they're wrong. Not saying anything other than this was the exchange between myself and the Spokesperson for AG Customer Service. Photos attached that I sent them. Each one can make up their own mind if I should have even contacted them or not. Maybe I'm totally wrong for having done so. Maybe my issues aren't bad as long as I got something in a reasonable amount of time. Everything you need to know is in the exchange below. Copy and paste from my email today.



Order # EI131

I received my first AG custom ordered stock Friday night. Great communication and a nice personal touch in reminding me it was on the way and when it would be delivered.

It is truly a beautiful stock, and the color scheme would be perfect for hunting in my area. My problem is that the barrel channel was inlet for the Proof Sendero contour, NOT the Proof Sendero LITE that I ordered and was invoiced. The barrel I have is .800" straight taper from 6" past the shank. I allowed for a decent gap around the barrel to ensure ease of free floating by ordering the Lite version, which is still a little wider than .800". The channel on the stock I received is massive and swallows the .800" barrel completely. I have a .900" Benchmark carbon Fiber barrel that went into this thing with about enough excess space around that as I'd wanted around the intended barrel in the intended Sendero Lite inlet. Pictures attached. So a beautiful stock, it truly is, and it's a shame I can't use it unless I order a new barrel with much larger contour, which I have found - and it's 32" long at .900". The idea was to have a mid-weight, nicely balanced rifle. This is a wildcat caliber. A rare .277 caliber barrel is required in a fast twist. Aggressive fluting was going to bring the weight of the intended barrel to within spec, so it would balance relatively well in the Alpine Hunter stock. With this other barrel available, it is going to be so top heavy, I'll need a tripod to support the forend. Not to mention the additional $500 cost of another new barrel. Offhand shooting will be out of the question.

That's my only option without waiting months. Unless I can get Pure Precision to custom cut me another one of your blanks they call the Altitude in about 4 weeks (optimistic) that will correctly fit the barrel I need to use. Maybe I can use this thing for something besides a paperweight sometime before I die or have to sell off my collection due to age and health. Had the same thing happen with McMillan, except they inlet for a short action rather than a long that they even invoiced correctly.

I would also like to warn you not to allow whoever packaged this thing to wrap Christmas gifts at the company Christmas party. It's more than a small miracle it even made it here, and especially with the bottom metal still inside. They should understand you have to pull the opening between the top box flaps together before sticking a single piece of tape down the center, which will not hold onto a small fraction of an inch of cardboard when not closed together before taping. If the pieces across had not held, I'd have no idea that this was even a miscommunication between orders receiving and production.

Good help is darn near impossible to find nowadays, regardless of what business you're in. Unfortunately, every company operating here has to settle for the employee who is willing to come to work sometimes, and actually complete some work on some days. That's why we have foreign labor taking jobs. Thank God for them, or we'd never have anything made anymore to any degree of craftsmanship or even mediocre quality.

I've had so many orders like this fall through the cracks and come to me unusable, I can't even begin to count them all. I have now come to expect problems with each and every order. To that end, my expectations here were met. If I find companies who deliver exactly what was intended, I keep using them and recommend them highly on many national forums and local events. I don't have many on that list. It is exceptionally rare now, though was commonplace 40 - 45 years ago. The only question then was who would give you the best price and/or use the best materials.

I design new cartridges and the guns in which to fire them. I can't meet deadlines or testing dates because issues like this are so plentiful. Still working on my list of reliable suppliers. I will, no doubt, be looking for a real job soon. I don't know much about stock-making, but I do know how to correctly package items for shipping. I can guarantee if you hired me that you'd never get a complaint about loose packaging ever again. I can also eyeball a barrel channel and action inlet and tell if it's a long or short action and whether it's a Proof Sendero contour barrel channel inlet or a 3B or a Remington Sporter, or Sendero Lite in the QA department. I work 7 days most weeks and do lots of traveling for work. I have an extremely high work ethic, haven't missed a day in enough years I can't recall the last time, and a strong desire to get it right. If you have an opening come available, I think I am qualified to improve your business once I go bankrupt in mine trying to build new guns and cartridges.

Merry Christmas, and I wish God's richest blessings to you all. Sincerely. Especially the nice person who sent me a personal text with a heads up on delivery of my beautiful paperweight. I know your business is thriving and this little issue is totally meanless. I don't really have any expectations following this message. Even if you offered to remake the stock with correct channel inlet, the time needed would be too great. I may can put enough weight inside the buttstock to counter balance the huge replacement barrel, but it would require actual cement being poured inside and allowed to dry. (Specialty barrels are usually made in single runs a year by the reputable makers. That's months out if I don't get the one available.) Weight would be 10 pounds out of range, at least.

You do a great job on the stocks from Pure Precision (formerly Mesa Precision), Remington (Alpha 1), Weatherby, and my Privateer I got from a 3rd party retailer last year. This one not working was a dagger for my design. Hopefully you always have plenty of happy customers and never have to deal with the likes of me and my one-off project.

Photos NOW attached.
--

3 attachments
Attachment20251205_195605.jpg
Attachment20251205_201932.jpg
Attachment1ce5f82c-cb58-4d93-9f33-a77a132a2965.jpg
S
[email protected]
to me
5 hours agoDetails
Good morning,
We get packages in from UPS all the time that look like they have been run over by a truck. I can assure you that your package did not leave our building looking like that. We are glad your stock was not damaged. Hope you have a Merry Christmas.
Staci
AG Composites

I have a few AG stocks - the key for me was calling to confirm the order a few days after it was placed. I too was frustrated with their communications asking multiple times for an email confirmation of the order. To this day, I still dont have it.

The stock did arrive as promised and the inletting was spot on...packaging looked a lot better than yours and it arrived in great shape. For a pure hunting stock in new designs of the modern hunter, its a great product. For ELR hunting and more Tac based adjustable stock applications, I will use Manners LRH moving forward.

 

[.300 Dakota]

I have a few AG stocks - the key for me was calling to confirm the order a few days after it was placed. I too was frustrated with their communications asking multiple times for an email confirmation of the order. To this day, I still dont have it.

The stock did arrive as promised and the inletting was spot on...packaging looked a lot better than yours and it arrived in great shape. For a pure hunting stock in new designs of the modern hunter, its a great product. For ELR hunting and more Tac based adjustable stock applications, I will use Manners LRH moving forward.

That was EXACTLY my thoughts. Buy once, cry once. I was prepared to order a stock from Manners when I decided I liked the the camo patterns on the AG site better. Plus a couple hundred $ savings. I've called AG to ask about specific inlets before, and their customer service has never left me with the warm fuzzies. Very matter of fact, very "take it or leave it." Very curt. McMillan did, at least, offer to recite the correct inlet. That was on a stock they had ready to ship. Whoever was in sales and advertising on the Web site didn't know the difference in a short and long action. They did, at least own that.

I really like the Pure Altitude stocks. I have 3, and looks like I'll have 4. Since AG's policy is "All Sales Final" as evidenced by her not even acknowledging the real issue, I can't take that risk. They don't do custom inlets. Apparently, they don't do many at all besides Proof Sendero. I gotta wonder if the techs who operate the machines to do the inlets are real shooters or somebody they got off the street with a little lathe and milling machine experience that really doesn't know the difference in a Sendero and Sendero Lite inlet. Back in the day, we had pre-written programs, that when loaded into the machine, would cut a certain part. Maybe somebody stamped the order with the wrong program reference number. Who knows.

So my cheapest and best way out is to call and have Pure do the inlet as a custom order, which they will do. Think they have a special on now, or did. From here on, I will probably use Manners. The one I had done was worth the money for what I needed.

 

[waspocrew]

That's a bummer, but stuff happens. Even from McMillan - I ordered a Mountain Tracker LR for my Tikka CTR (which is different bottom metal than a standard T3x). Invoice was correct, but my stock was inletted for the standard bottom metal.

You're not stuck with it. You can send it back. I'd call them and speak to someone about it.

 

[.300 Dakota]

Yes, same for me with McMillan. I suppose they (AG) could construe this that since I don't actually have a Proof Sendero Lite barrel, they could assess a $75 restocking fee. So my cost for their mistake is either about $80 on the low end, since I paid with a card and would like to ship insured, to $155 depending on how they want to construe this. No, like I told her in the email. I don't expect anything out of this. I'll use it sooner or later, or sell it. I'm not going to lose even more money on their mistake. She certainly didn't offer that as a remedy, though, did she??! Mistakes DO happen. And they are a lot easier to forgive when those who make the mistakes own their mistake and cheerfully offer to fully correct the issue. If I'm AG, I make a personal phone call and say I'll have the stock redone in a week, then send a postage-paid shipping box for the return of the bad one. Then when I receive the bad one and it's in good shape, and I verify the channel is cut too wide, I ship the replacement back. If I get it and it's cut correctly, and it's a case of buyer's remorse, I contact that customer and give them the dimensions and tell them it's going to be the same the second time and see what they say. If they damaged the stock or just wanted out of the deal, I don't ship anymore stocks to that name, address, phone number, and email address.

How much does this really mean to a company like AG that produces all kinds of stuff for the other industries besides just gun stocks? They have contracts with Weatherby, Remington, Pure Precision, and a host of others, I'm certain just in the rifle business. I am NOBODY to these people. They could just block me and never receive another word from me. I'm sure they probably have government contracts and international contracts. I'm not worthy to question anything. Lol. They could stop selling direct to the public today and live happily ever after. There is really no recourse with a company like that.

 

[waspocrew]

Yes, same for me with McMillan. I suppose they (AG) could construe this that since I don't actually have a Proof Sendero Lite barrel, they could assess a $75 restocking fee. So my cost for their mistake is either about $80 on the low end, since I paid with a card and would like to ship insured, to $155 depending on how they want to construe this. No, like I told her in the email. I don't expect anything out of this. I'll use it sooner or later, or sell it. I'm not going to lose even more money on their mistake. She certainly didn't offer that as a remedy, though, did she??! Mistakes DO happen. And they are a lot easier to forgive when those who make the mistakes own their mistake and cheerfully offer to fully correct the issue. If I'm AG, I make a personal phone call and say I'll have the stock redone in a week, then send a postage-paid shipping box for the return of the bad one. Then when I receive the bad one and it's in good shape, and I verify the channel is cut too wide, I ship the replacement back. If I get it and it's cut correctly, and it's a case of buyer's remorse, I contact that customer and give them the dimensions and tell them it's going to be the same the second time and see what they say. If they damaged the stock or just wanted out of the deal, I don't ship anymore stocks to that name, address, phone number, and email address.

How much does this really mean to a company like AG that produces all kinds of stuff for the other industries besides just gun stocks? They have contracts with Weatherby, Remington, Pure Precision, and a host of others, I'm certain just in the rifle business. I am NOBODY to these people. They could just block me and never receive another word from me. I'm sure they probably have government contracts and international contracts. I'm not worthy to question anything. Lol. They could stop selling direct to the public today and live happily ever after. There is really no recourse with a company like that.

Or you can call them.

Not to be blunt, but your initial email was extremely long winded (talking about the barrel channel, needing a new barrel to use the stock properly, wildcat cartridge, terrible boxing, "I'd do better", here's how you tape a box, I don't expect you to do anything, even if you offer it's too late, etc). She probably didn't read it all.

How about:

"Hey guys,
I received my order and unfortunately, there's an issue with the barrel channel. It's much wider than the Proof Sendero lite inlet I had ordered. (Please see my invoice for order details and attached pictures). I would much rather have my stock with the correct inlet. How can this be remedied?

Many thanks,
XXX"

You can definitely hang on to it if you really feel that way, or just call them. You're a paying customer and the product you ordered was incorrect.

 

[Mike D Texas]

This seems like a lot of to do over a cosmetic issue. Yes they did it wrong; yes they should make it right.

At the end of the day it will not affect the performance of the rifle at all.

 

[.300 Dakota]

This seems like a lot of to do over a cosmetic issue. Yes they did it wrong; yes they should make it right.

At the end of the day it will not affect the performance of the rifle at all.

Would you build a rifle with a gap large enough in a traditional stock to almost completely hide your barrel and be perfectly fine with that? Are you thinking, "YEAH! That looks AWESOME!" Everytime you look at it and see the look on everyone else's face when they look at it, and then they ask you why you built it like that and you say, "Oh, I intended it to look normal, but I didn't want to spend the extra money to fix the goofup, so since it shoots good, I just left it alone."

What you said. "Yes they did it wrong, yes they should make it right."

If I had sunk my last dollar into this and couldn't afford to do anything different, I might entertain the notion of pouring epoxy in the channel and filling it in using the barrel coated in wax and release agent as a mold, then sand any excess and hone it out to free float. The sides would be REALLY thick, but it would look a little better than it would if left like it is.

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Stocks are an absolute crap shoot when it comes to inlets.... and that includes every mfg, even ones that start with M

 

[southpa]

I'll agree with @waspocrew

They have been absolutely stellar for anyone I've ever met. Though I have never received a stock that was incorrectly inletted they have gone above and beyond for us.

Example: I paid a smith to do a simple bedding job. Long story short he was a hack, screwed it up and blamed it on the stock. I knew this to be false as its pretty obvious to tell what happened. Gave him the benefit of the doubt and contacted AG. They confirmed the guy was full of it. They offered shipping both ways, said they would mill it out and fully re-bed it completely free of charge to me for the misfortune of bad gunsmithing. I'm not sure if the OP mentioned if he called them or not but I'm confident they will make it right.

I understand it still put you behind but stuff happens. It's not if, it's when in my world. Sorry about your luck. Keep is posted. In a situation like this I think you gotta give them a chance to make it right

 

[.300 Dakota]

Or you can call them.

Not to be blunt, but your initial email was extremely long winded (talking about the barrel channel, needing a new barrel to use the stock properly, wildcat cartridge, terrible boxing, "I'd do better", here's how you tape a box, I don't expect you to do anything, even if you offer it's too late, etc). She probably didn't read it all.

How about:

"Hey guys,
I received my order and unfortunately, there's an issue with the barrel channel. It's much wider than the Proof Sendero lite inlet I had ordered. (Please see my invoice for order details and attached pictures). I would much rather have my stock with the correct inlet. How can this be remedied?

Many thanks,
XXX"

You can definitely hang on to it if you really feel that way, or just call them. You're a paying customer and the product you ordered was incorrect.

I wrote that email that way on purpose testing the authenticity of their customer service. I figured early on in reading that consise response of hers, that she likely didn't read the WHOLE thing. She just read far enough to get an attitude and go on the defensive. She met passive-aggressive with passive-aggressive. If I'm just a guy behind a keyboard and we're in a blog (or on a forum) then good for her! If she's the face or voice of the company responding in kind to customer complaints, bad for the company.

My friend, a customer service representative for a reputable manufacturing company has a duty to listen to what their customers say. By golly, IT'S HER JOB to read or listen to EVERY darn word I say as long as I'm not cursing, threatening, or belittling her personally. And she failed the test with flying colors.

Maybe I'm too old fashioned, but I have pretty high expectations from customer service at big companies, and when they don't come close to meeting those expectations and fail to do the one job they are suppose to be doing - building relationships with clients and promoting the brand as the best in the industry - I don't want to go near that company unless they sell out and go under new management that has a little better idea of good stewardship. So no, I don't want to return the stock (although I would have if she had approached it correctly -and I would have ordered dozens more over the course of not too much time). I don't want to go near AG Composites ever again. I'd sooner buy a Boyd's and hire a good gunsmith to mill it to speck. It would look much better than what I have, and I wouldn't have to overcome an attitude at the entry point to get it. I think I mentioned in my first post that I have actually called AG Composites before on a few occasions. It always seemed like I was not important enough to be wasting their time, and it may well have been this same woman I spoke with then.

When I decide on Manners or Pure Precision, I'll call them and have a conversation and see if it seems like I'll get what I need and how long it might take to make sure there is no misunderstanding on what I want. I'll document names and details of the conversation including date and time. I'll make sure they know I'm taking notes. Somebody out there will make me some stocks and get them right. And by get them right, I don't necessarily mean it has to be seamless and mistake free. Everybody makes mistakes. I was bummed that it wasn't done right and would have to be redone some way. Now I'm completely biased against the whole company. I certainly hope others have excellent results, and I hope their attitudes and business practices change to command more confidence in their products.

I've got my 2 cents worth in, and I consider it a closed case at this point. What I'm hearing is that I'm a little outside the standard deviation for expectations and ideals relating to those expectations. I was hoping to find this out and see how much of it is me and how much is the current state of affairs and what we're all willing to settle for. I will readily agree that expectations of most anything today should usually be a sight lower than they could have been 40 years ago. But that doesn't mean that I have to conform to the current status quo.

Lol! I'll post up a picture of the finished project with a little detail about it when it's done.

Best wishes for the holidays to all our members and moderators. Glad we have a place to rant, receive (feedback), relate (to each other and what's being said), redirect (our focus, thoughts, and attitudes after receiving feedback) and resume (life with new information and outlooks). Thank you guys for honest feedback. Still working on getting some range time for the new 6.5 wildcat to see what it can do. Too many projects and too little time.

 

[.300 Dakota]

Stocks are an absolute crap shoot when it comes to inlets.... and that includes every mfg, even ones that start with M

Uh oh... I guess I should rethink it then. Good to know.

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Uh oh... I guess I should rethink it then. Good to know.

Best thing to do is call anytime you are ordering to confirm what you want is what you receive.

No one has ever refused a return for full refund if it was incorrect.

LOP can be variable with some mfg as well.

 

[southpa]

I wrote that email that way on purpose testing the authenticity of their customer service. I figured early on in reading that consise response of hers, that she likely didn't read the WHOLE thing. She just read far enough to get an attitude and go on the defensive. She met passive-aggressive with passive-aggressive. If I'm just a guy behind a keyboard and we're in a blog (or on a forum) then good for her! If she's the face or voice of the company responding in kind to customer complaints, bad for the company.

My friend, a customer service representative for a reputable manufacturing company has a duty to listen to what their customers say. By golly, IT'S HER JOB to read or listen to EVERY darn word I say as long as I'm not cursing, threatening, or belittling her personally. And she failed the test with flying colors.

Maybe I'm too old fashioned, but I have pretty high expectations from customer service at big companies, and when they don't come close to meeting those expectations and fail to do the one job they are suppose to be doing - building relationships with clients and promoting the brand as the best in the industry - I don't want to go near that company unless they sell out and go under new management that has a little better idea of good stewardship. So no, I don't want to return the stock (although I would have if she had approached it correctly -and I would have ordered dozens more over the course of not too much time). I don't want to go near AG Composites ever again. I'd sooner buy a Boyd's and hire a good gunsmith to mill it to speck. It would look much better than what I have, and I wouldn't have to overcome an attitude at the entry point to get it. I think I mentioned in my first post that I have actually called AG Composites before on a few occasions. It always seemed like I was not important enough to be wasting their time, and it may well have been this same woman I spoke with then.

When I decide on Manners or Pure Precision, I'll call them and have a conversation and see if it seems like I'll get what I need and how long it might take to make sure there is no misunderstanding on what I want. I'll document names and details of the conversation including date and time. I'll make sure they know I'm taking notes. Somebody out there will make me some stocks and get them right. And by get them right, I don't necessarily mean it has to be seamless and mistake free. Everybody makes mistakes. I was bummed that it wasn't done right and would have to be redone some way. Now I'm completely biased against the whole company. I certainly hope others have excellent results, and I hope their attitudes and business practices change to command more confidence in their products.

I've got my 2 cents worth in, and I consider it a closed case at this point. What I'm hearing is that I'm a little outside the standard deviation for expectations and ideals relating to those expectations. I was hoping to find this out and see how much of it is me and how much is the current state of affairs and what we're all willing to settle for. I will readily agree that expectations of most anything today should usually be a sight lower than they could have been 40 years ago. But that doesn't mean that I have to conform to the current status quo.

Lol! I'll post up a picture of the finished project with a little detail about it when it's done.

Best wishes for the holidays to all our members and moderators. Glad we have a place to rant, receive (feedback), relate (to each other and what's being said), redirect (our focus, thoughts, and attitudes after receiving feedback) and resume (life with new information and outlooks). Thank you guys for honest feedback. Still working on getting some range time for the new 6.5 wildcat to see what it can do. Too many projects and too little time.

So you never called them? I don't want to get this wrong but what I'm understanding is that you're passing judgment on a perceived attitude through text?