Beginner reloader setup

A_Brandt said:
Good calipers are a must. Comparators, will Hornady do, or do you need to step up for more precise machined gauges with tighter tolerances? I've heard both sides of the fence
Click to expand...

I spent a good chunk of my life as a machinist / toolmaker and used precision measuring tools all day every day. While a caliper is nice to have I don't consider them a precision measuring tool and I most certainly don't recommend any sort of battery powered measuring tool. I have seen too many problems caused by weak batteries. For the last 10 years of my career I mostly honed holes to tolerances as small as .0001. You can't measure holes with a gauge pin, they will tell you what size pin will go in a hole but not how big the hole is, or how round it is. The most accurate way for the average person to measure inside diameters of case necks is with a small hole gauge and a micrometer. This requires a fair amount of practice and it can still be off a little.
All this is relatively unimportant, I don't think it's a big deal to know the internal diameter of the case neck. It's easier to accurately measure the neck thickness and outer diameter. As far as sizing case necks I prefer to use collet style dies. I used to hone my dies to fit the rifle and brass I was using but it is not the ideal solution. I did this before the collet dies were widely available.

Your list looks pretty good to me aside from not having a beam scale as other posters have mentioned. I personally prefer the old style Lee priming tool but they are getting harder to find and more expensive. As far as a press, I mostly use the RockChucker and have since the early '70s. I like to buy new brass and dedicate it to the rifle it will be used in. I don't bother turning case necks except for my bench rest rifle. I prefer Redding dies for my normal loading and they will load quality ammunition. I have a Hornady comparator and it works okay but I don't always use it. If I'm loading for a magazine rifle I most often just load to the maximum length the magazine will handle, provided it isn't jamming the bullets into the lands. You're getting a lot of good information from a lot of experienced hand loaders. The main thing is safety.

I suspect many of us started out loading our own because we couldn't afford to shoot as much as we wanted to. I started with the Lee Loader hand tools and they loaded decent ammo and still will. Gather up your stuff and have fun!
 
One other aspect I didn't mention or touch on, is that Turret presses are another great addition to any single stage set-up by introducing faster set-up times, the capability of having several heads with dies already installed for batch mode, or for progressive manual mode.
I don't load on my Turrets in progressive manual mode, I batch mode.
I have both RCBS Turret press and Redding T7 Turret presses.
Some heads have combo of FL Die/Seater Die in one cartridge and 2 others set-up like that, or just 6-7 FL Dies, or 6-7 Comp Seater Dies or standard seater dies.
This makes life far simpler and change ups take a couple of minutes.

Cheers.
 
I only have one load data book ( Nosler ) beyond that most reloading manuals these days can be viewed on line.
I mentioned that somewhere else and my troll went at me pretty hard over it but I think it was accurate.
Anyway, building great ammo can be accomplished with just a few hand tools, I've certainly upgraded a couple things but I'm still using every Wilson or Harrell's precision tool I've purchased .
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4512.jpeg
    IMG_4512.jpeg
    247.7 KB
Ronald W Schaefer said:
I didn't see what you listed for a press (could've overlooked it with my "man eyes"). You cannot go wrong with the big green, RCBS. Also, do not pass go, get yourself a Garmin zero chronograph. I've gone through four in my long and storied reloading career and the Garmin is the best thing since sliced bread. A final thought, the only thing you can tell about your load without a chrony is how do they group and do they seem too hot. You need all that speed and variance data to help build ballistics charts and forecast reliability and velocity for dial turrets etc.
Click to expand...
Almost went rockchucker press but got a steal on a Forster Co-Ax. And I have a garmin chronograph, love it!!!
 
Nimrod said:
I spent a good chunk of my life as a machinist / toolmaker and used precision measuring tools all day every day. While a caliper is nice to have I don't consider them a precision measuring tool and I most certainly don't recommend any sort of battery powered measuring tool. I have seen too many problems caused by weak batteries. For the last 10 years of my career I mostly honed holes to tolerances as small as .0001. You can't measure holes with a gauge pin, they will tell you what size pin will go in a hole but not how big the hole is, or how round it is. The most accurate way for the average person to measure inside diameters of case necks is with a small hole gauge and a micrometer. This requires a fair amount of practice and it can still be off a little.
All this is relatively unimportant, I don't think it's a big deal to know the internal diameter of the case neck. It's easier to accurately measure the neck thickness and outer diameter. As far as sizing case necks I prefer to use collet style dies. I used to hone my dies to fit the rifle and brass I was using but it is not the ideal solution. I did this before the collet dies were widely available.

Your list looks pretty good to me aside from not having a beam scale as other posters have mentioned. I personally prefer the old style Lee priming tool but they are getting harder to find and more expensive. As far as a press, I mostly use the RockChucker and have since the early '70s. I like to buy new brass and dedicate it to the rifle it will be used in. I don't bother turning case necks except for my bench rest rifle. I prefer Redding dies for my normal loading and they will load quality ammunition. I have a Hornady comparator and it works okay but I don't always use it. If I'm loading for a magazine rifle I most often just load to the maximum length the magazine will handle, provided it isn't jamming the bullets into the lands. You're getting a lot of good information from a lot of experienced hand loaders. The main thing is safety.

I suspect many of us started out loading our own because we couldn't afford to shoot as much as we wanted to. I started with the Lee Loader hand tools and they loaded decent ammo and still will. Gather up your stuff and have fun!
Click to expand...
Thank your for the very detailed quality insight. I have a pair of Hornady calipers, and a pair of Quinn calipers for "shop" use. They are both digital. Listening to you and other it might seem like if I want to be precise that maybe a dial is better, or spend a little bit more on a better set of digital calipers and extra batteries?
 
Alibiiv said:
I used an RCBS Rockchucker press for decades, and then one day I decided a wanted a new press. RCBS was running a special on the Rockchucker SUPREME press for like $160 so I got a new press. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Rockchucker press that I had, I just wanted a new one. With all of the variables involved with "any" press, I believe all of the concentricity work comes from prepping the brass and from the dies, and not the press. The press is only a means to deliver the case to the dies. There are clearances everywhere on either the CoAx press of the "O" press and one cannot get away from those clearances. There are clearances between the die body and the press alone, the play between the ram and the press body, the clearance between the casing and the shell holder and I can go on and on. Does there have to be a certain level of precision built into the press, absolutely, however the final work gets done within the die itself and not the press.
Click to expand...
I like your take on it. It seems to coincide with my thought process!!! A true press is a truly aligned press. But just due to manufacturing I thought maybe eliminate some of the "what ifs" with a co-ax press or atleast try to. I have the view point that a perfectly 100% true press of the cheapest sorts will outperform a $1,000 co-ax design. But the odds of that are slim so trying to go with the "best overall" option. As for dies and seating while talking about concentricity, I recently stumbled upon online died with an arbor press. Seems like the idea or thought behind it is accurate, wondering if the real world product you'd get with follows that idea? And also had one guy I purchased some supplies off of show me a Forster seating die where you seat the bullet inside of a window on top of a caliber specific bushing of some sorts and when you press the case from below upwards it should pick up the bullet in a more aligned fashion for seating. Seemed like an "inline" die concept, but with a regular press and a more 50/50 normal full length seating die and inline die combined. Have you heard or seen one of these and have any thought?
 
ntsqd said:
Part of the reason that I encourage buying brand name Metrology tools (Mitutoyo, Starrett, etc.) is because you won't outgrow them. They will continue to be useful as your skills and knowledge increase.

The reason that I suggest digital is because of the need to measure in Imperial and in Metric. If you know for certain that you will only ever measure in one standard or the other then a dial caliper is very suitable and can save some money.
However, once you use a digital and toggle back and forth between the two standards they become indispensable. I started out with an Imperial dial Mitutoyo, but as soon as something metric came along I was carrying around a small calculator too. Being able to simply push a button on the caliper was a game changer. If you do buy a dial, expect to outgrow them, so buy on the low end so that when you replace them with a digital you're not out a huge chunk of change.

My experience and observation of others experiences is that some of the tools that you buy will fall out of favor as your knowledge and skills increase. Others will seem like a good idea in theory, but not in use. Still other tools will be a "go-to" from the start and you'll use them frequently. It is going to happen, and there's not much that can be done to predict which tool will be which. Measuring tools you'll always need. I strongly suggest buying quality.

Out my own curiosity I just looked at 6" Mitu's, dial and digital, to compare costs.
This dial: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/84477736 is currently $147.60 and has a .0010" accuracy.
This digital: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/62529482 is currently $161.60 and has a +/- .0010" accuracy.
If you want a dial with +/- .0010" accuracy you need to step up to this caliper: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/14345789 and it currently costs $203.55
All are made from hardened stainless.
With a digital the only reason to pay any attention to that fourth decimal place number is if you're in a round-off situation. It's still meaningless, but it generally will give you an idea of the trend. Just like reading between the hash marks on a dial will do for you.
Click to expand...
Seems like you've had your go around with calipers. If you were starting all over again knowing what you know now, which route would you go and why specifically? Also, I'm confused a bit as to the difference in these if they all read a +/- 0.0010 accuracy? Some sort of answering on clearing this up would be awesome, because I agree just as much on their importance, so if going the route of buy once cry once, want to make sure my money is well spent on the best option. Thanks!!!
 
I think you have compiled a great list. I'm a fan of the buy once cry once approach. A good portion of that list is what I use in my setup. You will be happy with the CoAx press. I have one as well as the Rock Chucker. Both are great but I like the snap in dies and hate messing with shell plates.
An unnecessary, yet very convenient tool that I added to my reloading process is the Frankfort Arsenal hand depriming tool. Lots of stuff out there to do the same job but this one just works great. Keeps your bench cleaner too. A good hand priming tool is handy. I like the RCBS universal priming tool, but honestly it's the first and only one I've bought in the last 15 years. The Frankfort Arsenal hand primer you are looking at seems to get good reviews as well.
A case prep center is a must for me. I don't think it's terribly important as to which brand , but you need something motorized with multiple ports. Chamfer tools, primer pocket brush and neck brush is what I run on my RCBS case prep center.
A good flash hole debuting tool is handy. RCBS or Sinclair. Both work fine.
I like Saturn powder funnels but they are caliber specific. The 419 funnel is awesome but kinda pricey. Hornady and Lyman make nice kits similar to 419.
Get an Imperial graphite media kit as well. Great for seating bullets and lubing for your mandrel dies. Imperial size wax is good stuff for your sizing.
I like my Forster dies. I run a few Redding dies as well. I have mostly replaced my RCBS dies over the years.
When I started loading I would buy the cheapest brass I could find. Don't do this… I believe it led to a lot of wasted time and components. Sure I loaded descent ammo with it but premium brass made some of the biggest impacts in my reloading process.
Alpha, Lapua, Peterson and ADG are your go-to. Don't buy 50 pcs at a time. Get 150-200 pieces from the same lot.
Consistency is the key here. Some tools simply make the consistency easier. Develop your process and make it a ritual. Same way every time. When developing your load only change one variable at a time. Avoid loading bullets that don't have published max loads (like hammer or McGuire) until you gain experience identifying pressure signs.
 
A_Brandt said:
Seems like you've had your go around with calipers. If you were starting all over again knowing what you know now, which route would you go and why specifically? Also, I'm confused a bit as to the difference in these if they all read a +/- 0.0010 accuracy? Some sort of answering on clearing this up would be awesome, because I agree just as much on their importance, so if going the route of buy once cry once, want to make sure my money is well spent on the best option. Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
Get mititoyo digital. (From reliable company.... lots of fakes out there. )

I have two.

One set up with comparator (bullet or shoulder) and one set up bare jaw.


Get an inline fabrication roller handle for the press.

Another big idea.... the less you do, the less you introduce to the system. Keep it as simple as possible.

Bullets..... my go to bullets are berger 140 in 6.5, 180 in 7mm, and 215 in .308. All hybrid version. If a gun won't shoot them it isn't worth messing with.... to me.

Build reliable easy to shoot calibers or what everyone admits to being easy to tune.

6mm dasher with 105 hybrids
7mm saum with 180 hybrids
300 win mag with 215 hybrids
Etc.

You would be hard pressed to find someone that said anything bad about those combos.

3 rifle systems to cover everything. Only 3 sets of dies. When they get shot out.. screw a new barrel on.

Once you see how much you can improve reloading you'll get one to shoot itty bitty groups and anything bigger than that will just bother you.. haha

I don't want to work hard to get a rifle to shoot. I want a forgiving rifle. Wide powder charges. Wide seating depths. A seating depth window of .003 or a powder charge of 0.1 difference is of no use to me.
 
Last edited:
A_Brandt said:
Seems like you've had your go around with calipers. If you were starting all over again knowing what you know now, which route would you go and why specifically? Also, I'm confused a bit as to the difference in these if they all read a +/- 0.0010 accuracy? Some sort of answering on clearing this up would be awesome, because I agree just as much on their importance, so if going the route of buy once cry once, want to make sure my money is well spent on the best option. Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
I ended up with several Mitutoyo digitals when a former employer closed down their West Coast operations in addition to the pair that I already owned. I bought a Fowler digital set to use at work, mostly for reverse engineering stuff. I'd seen Mitutoyo's disappear at work and I figured the lower price of the Fowlers made some sense if that happened to those. Since I work at a desk with no locking drawers and don't have a tool box, locking them up is difficult.

All of the Mitutoyos are still going strong, a couple are on their 2nd or 3rd battery. The Fowlers are maybe 6 years old and won't reset their absolute zero any more. I have to set the relative zero every time I turn them on. A new battery did not fix this.
I agree with the others who've said it, I suggest Mitutoyo.

The ".001" vs. "+/- .001" thing bugs me, too. To me that is saying that the first pair are accurate to +/- .0005", which highly unlikely. Especially given that they were the lower cost set. Most are capable of +/- .001", some, like those "MyCals" that I bought when a starving student, are only good to +/- .0015" or worse.

Technique with the calipers is important. Just by how you operate them you can unintentionally alter the measurement. This is why few journeymen machinists use them for any more than a rough idea of size. They are easy to spring and end up with a distorted reading (can do it with micrometers too, it's just a little more difficult). Once you have a good set play with them. Learn how you can make them read in error and develop a technique to avoid doing that.

With all of this nuance in such a small part of the whole of reloading, imagine just how big of a rabbit hole you've just stepped into!
 
I have a set of digital Mitutoyo calipers myself. A few years back I started to question if I was getting accurate measurements for one reason or another. So I purchased a 3" gauge block. Took my measurement and I was dead on. So that gave me piece of mind and gave me confidence that I was taking my measurements accurately.
 
ntsqd said:
I ended up with several Mitutoyo digitals when a former employer closed down their West Coast operations in addition to the pair that I already owned. I bought a Fowler digital set to use at work, mostly for reverse engineering stuff. I'd seen Mitutoyo's disappear at work and I figured the lower price of the Fowlers made some sense if that happened to those. Since I work at a desk with no locking drawers and don't have a tool box, locking them up is difficult.

All of the Mitutoyos are still going strong, a couple are on their 2nd or 3rd battery. The Fowlers are maybe 6 years old and won't reset their absolute zero any more. I have to set the relative zero every time I turn them on. A new battery did not fix this.
I agree with the others who've said it, I suggest Mitutoyo.

The ".001" vs. "+/- .001" thing bugs me, too. To me that is saying that the first pair are accurate to +/- .0005", which highly unlikely. Especially given that they were the lower cost set. Most are capable of +/- .001", some, like those "MyCals" that I bought when a starving student, are only good to +/- .0015" or worse.

Technique with the calipers is important. Just by how you operate them you can unintentionally alter the measurement. This is why few journeymen machinists use them for any more than a rough idea of size. They are easy to spring and end up with a distorted reading (can do it with micrometers too, it's just a little more difficult). Once you have a good set play with them. Learn how you can make them read in error and develop a technique to avoid doing that.

With all of this nuance in such a small part of the whole of reloading, imagine just how big of a rabbit hole you've just stepped into!
Click to expand...
This rabbit hole has been entered. But it sounds like you've been in it for a while, so I'm glad I've got someone with some emerald world experience to help sort thru the smoke and thin air. I have noticed even with the ones I have that depending on how you hold them, how hard you squeeze the ends together, and other little nuances can't without a shadow of a doubt give you multiple different readings. I will not to go with a reputable pair like mutitoyo and to practice with my form and consistency and it should be enough for my needs! Love the feedback!!!! Awesome stuff!
 

Similar threads

L
Beginner Help
2
Replies
17
Views
5K
Long Dogg
L
H
Beginner caliber
2 3 4
Replies
53
Views
11K
Hurl427
H
W
Long range shooter beginner!!!
Replies
4
Views
2K
WildRose
WildRose
R
Beginner gun fanatic
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
GySgtFTL
G
S
Couple Beginner Questions
Replies
11
Views
3K
ogreshooter
O

Recent Posts

Back
Top