Badlands - this is stupid. Anybody else had this happen??

nimrod_gn · Jul 29, 2022

Been doing load development for a new custom 280 AI. After using some other bullets decided to give the Badlands 140 gr Bulldozer a try. Charged some cases with selected powder and upon seating the very first bullet - the aluminum tip pulls out of the bullet and is stuck in my seating die. Can't get it out so now my seating die is useless. Ridiculous. Fairly new basic RCBS dies. What a way to start!! Not looking good for using Badlands

FEENIX · Jul 29, 2022

nimrod_gn said:
Been doing load development for a new custom 280 AI. After using some other bullets decided to give the Badlands 140 gr Bulldozer a try. Charged some cases with selected powder and upon seating the very first bullet - the aluminum tip pulls out of the bullet and is stuck in my seating die. Can't get it out so now my seating die is useless. Ridiculous. Fairly new basic RCBS dies. What a way to start!! Not looking good for using Badlands

Don't be too quick to blame the bullet. You might (?) need a seating stem that is made for loading secant ogive or other long bullet designs.

@nralifer
@codyadams

ADDED: These are .26 cal bullets for comparison only.

.26 cals 130 Scirocco II 135 BD2 140 Berger VLD.jpg

L-R
130 Scirocco II
135 BD2
140 Berger VLD

As you can see, the BD2 is very long, and a conventional seating stem might not work (bottom out). I just tried the 135 BD2, and it bottoms out in my .264 WM Hornady seating stem. So, I would need a seating stem to accommodate the longer and sleeker bullet.

My guess is the BD2 also bottomed out in your RCBS seating stem, and the bullet tip came off when you forced it during the seating process.

Aloeus · Jul 30, 2022

I've loaded the 128gr 277 badlands with 0 issues. Then I checked this forum tonight for ideas on where to start my dad off with the 140gr 7mm BD2s, and right after I see this thread he pops a tip off just like OP. Fortunately his redding die made it easy to plier the tip out of the die, and it went back onto the bullet with no issue. I added some lube to the seating die and the next 17 bullets didn't have any issue, well there was one other issue but that's a story for another thread.

Anyway, this appears to be possible with seating dies that don't have long enough stems. I blame OP for it happening to me though, the timing is suspicious.

codyadams · Jul 30, 2022

You will want a VLD seating stem when seating VLD type bullets to fully avoid this or other issues. This may happen in some cases, most of the dies I use in my LR rifles aren't just standard dies and have vld seating stems and don't have this issue. However I could see it happening if the seating stem is pressing on just the tip of the bullet, and would pull it out when drawing the case down. The tips are pressed in, so they can be pulled out as well.

As far as getting a VLD seating stem from RCBS, you probably won't find them on line, however they have absolutely amazing customer service. Call them, explain the issue, and they will likely send you some seating stems to try out to see which one works the best. If they charge you, it won't be much.

nralifer · Jul 30, 2022

FEENIX said:
Don't be too quick to blame the bullet. You might (?) need a seating stem that is made for loading secant ogive or other long bullet designs.

@nralifer
@codyadams

ADDED: These are .26 cal bullets for comparison only.

View attachment 383268

L-R
130 Scirocco II
135 BD2
140 Berger VLD

As you can see, the BD2 is very long, and a conventional seating stem might not work (bottom out).
I just tried the 135 BD2, and it bottoms out in my .264 WM Hornady seating stem. So, I would need a seating stem to accommodate the longer and sleeker bullet.

My guess is the BD2 also bottomed out in your RCBS seating stem, and the bullet tip came off when you forced it during the seating process.

FEENIX is right. The problem is the seating stem in the die. I use Forster dies, which are superb. Very well adapted to long ogive high BC bullets. Have not needed to get specialized seating stem, although they are more than willing to accommodate custom touches to the dies you order. Much more responsive in this regard than other die companies. Their seating stem provides plenty of clearance. I quit using RCBS dies years ago. Redding seating dies are very good but their seating stem can also have poor tip clearance with the long ogive bullets. The Forster design can accommodate virtually any style of ogive. To get high BC in a bullet, longer ogive length is absolutely necessary. Whidden dies also makes a click sizing die that is unique and is used to precisely and easily adjust shoulder bump. Critical in avoiding excessive stretching of the brass and avoiding case head separation.
Don't blame the bullet when it's the die's fault.

FEENIX · Jul 30, 2022

nralifer said:
FEENIX is right. The problem is the seating stem in the die.

Don't blame the bullet when it's the die's fault.

Thank you for your and @codyadams validation. Let us take OP's uneventful experience as a learning opportunity in dealing with long and sleek bullets like the VLDs, A-Tips, BD2s, etc. When in doubt, I remove the seating stem and check if a particular bullet like the BD2 will bottom out - a quick and easy check to prevent unnecessary issues/frustrations.

ADDED: I found this old video; while it is not on RCBS dies, it gets the point across on differences in seating stems in dies brands.

C.O. Shooter · Jul 30, 2022

Side note, when measuring BTO with a hornady comparator, I had to drill out the back of it to be able to measure the 275 SBD2 with a .338 Lapua.

Darryle · Jul 30, 2022

Have you tried "mortaring" the die like you would an AR with a stuck bolt?

Piece of PVC pipe to keep it "square" to whatever hard surface you choose, simply drop thru the PVC guide, worth a shot

David_h · Jul 30, 2022

nimrod_gn said:
Been doing load development for a new custom 280 AI. After using some other bullets decided to give the Badlands 140 gr Bulldozer a try. Charged some cases with selected powder and upon seating the very first bullet - the aluminum tip pulls out of the bullet and is stuck in my seating die. Can't get it out so now my seating die is useless. Ridiculous. Fairly new basic RCBS dies. What a way to start!! Not looking good for using Badlands

I read your post because I have some 140gr Badlands in .277 for my 6.8 Western. I've not yet loaded any because I'm waiting for some brass (heck, I'm also waiting to pick up rifle). So after reading about your issue, I pulled the seater steam out of the RCBS die and it appears they provided a proper stem as the aluminum tip does not come close to touching. I'm sure RCBS can provide a similar stem for your die too. Good luck

spladi · Jul 30, 2022

nimrod_gn said:
Been doing load development for a new custom 280 AI. After using some other bullets decided to give the Badlands 140 gr Bulldozer a try. Charged some cases with selected powder and upon seating the very first bullet - the aluminum tip pulls out of the bullet and is stuck in my seating die. Can't get it out so now my seating die is useless. Ridiculous. Fairly new basic RCBS dies. What a way to start!! Not looking good for using Badlands

You could drill a hole in the base of the stuck tip and turn a small screw into it.

Airedale56 · Jul 30, 2022

OP: Have you tried screwing the seating die stem out through the bottom of the die?
Should be pretty easy to remove the stuck tip after you get it out.

B P Shooter · Jul 30, 2022

nralifer said:
FEENIX is right. The problem is the seating stem in the die. I use Forster dies, which are superb. Very well adapted to long ogive high BC bullets. Have not needed to get specialized seating stem, although they are more than willing to accommodate custom touches to the dies you order. Much more responsive in this regard than other die companies. Their seating stem provides plenty of clearance. I quit using RCBS dies years ago. Redding seating dies are very good but their seating stem can also have poor tip clearance with the long ogive bullets. The Forster design can accommodate virtually any style of ogive. To get high BC in a bullet, longer ogive length is absolutely necessary. Whidden dies also makes a click sizing die that is unique and is used to precisely and easily adjust shoulder bump. Critical in avoiding excessive stretching of the brass and avoiding case head separation.
Don't blame the bullet when it's the die's fault.

Redding offers replaceable VLD micrometer stems for their dies. Had to replace mine for my Berger pills.
Remove your seating stem and place a pill on the stem to see if it seats properly or wobbles around to know if you need to change the stem

Korhil78 · Aug 1, 2022

I am sorry that it happened to you but I can't say that I didn't chuckle a little bit about it.

If you do start feeling down about it, just stop and look at your mule deer mount that I'm sure you have on the wall that is in your sig pic. That would make me feel better.

Zen Archery · Aug 2, 2022

Well that's annoying. Can you just pull them out and use like an HP?

Badlands - this is stupid. Anybody else had this happen??

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