With the limited availability of components I am seriously considering reducing test loads from 5 to 3 for a particular powder weight and bullet. I've always tried to shoot 5 shot strings to determine performance. What do you recommend?
Should I reduce ladder loads
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ShtrRdy
Well-Known Member
I do 3-shot strings but mostly because I can't keep it together for 5 shots.
You could do 3 shot groups for testing powder charges and if there are one or two that look good follow it up with a 5 shot group.
You could do 3 shot groups for testing powder charges and if there are one or two that look good follow it up with a 5 shot group.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
You include 'ladder' in the title, but went right to 'strings'. Not the same
Just a terminology miss step on my part.
Bob Wright
Well-Known Member
If I'm real familiar with all the components, I can reduce my ladder down based on experience. Always looking for pressure signs and velocity flats. I still put them on paper at 300 yards. If it's all "new to me" components, no.
I'm basically starting from scratch on a new rifle. Got real lucky during the initial break in and shot some reasonably tight groups at 100 yards with some left over loads for my old browning 7RM BAR. They were 160 gr Accubonds with ppu brass, WLRM primers, and 62 gr of IMR 4831. I typically shoot 5 shot groups to determine if there is consistency in the load. This is from a factory rifle (Bergara HMR). I'm just experimenting now (different bullets, powder, primers, and brass). Thought it might be wise to lower my test load groups.
Bob Wright
Well-Known Member
That new rifle variable. Just monitor one interesting load and see if it picks up velocity over multiple shooting sessions. It can still hunt with a book load of course. You only need one bullet for that. Once the velocity stabilizes, you can settle in on developing your favorite load. Lapped barrels break in fast. Not sure if yours is...
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On (5) five shot groups over (5) 3 shot groups, the difference is only 10 rounds. The statistical data attained from 5 shot groups for long range accuracy is invaluable. Out to 5-600 yards, maybe not so much. I understand the concern but the data is good for the life of the rifle. My $.02.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
Initially I do single shot ladder testing ( 1 shot at each ladder step)--
I check velocity and I look for rounds that land in groups. From there I go back and will do a 3 shot group with the velocity I liked that was in a group to see of ot groups well.
If it prints well, I will either then try COAL/primer variations, or if it was good enough I'll test again with at least 5 shots to verify in different weather conditions.
If it's a hunting load, I will then do 4 shot test groups at distances I intend to hunt with (300,500,700 etc) to check drops
You can cut down on some component usage in initial testing depending on the way you test--- but the load should always be verified in multiple weather conditions at multiple distances as far as I'm concerned
I check velocity and I look for rounds that land in groups. From there I go back and will do a 3 shot group with the velocity I liked that was in a group to see of ot groups well.
If it prints well, I will either then try COAL/primer variations, or if it was good enough I'll test again with at least 5 shots to verify in different weather conditions.
If it's a hunting load, I will then do 4 shot test groups at distances I intend to hunt with (300,500,700 etc) to check drops
You can cut down on some component usage in initial testing depending on the way you test--- but the load should always be verified in multiple weather conditions at multiple distances as far as I'm concerned
I really appreciate the input. I have never tried a round robin approach. It may take out some of the variables. For now I will focus on finding the node using identical components in 3 shot groups. Hopefully I will find it with the components I have in stock or can acquire.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
Satterlee ladder is all I do anymore. I shoot 1 at .5 grain to ident potential node and max charge. I come back and shoot .2 around the upper node in no more than 3 shots. Usually that tunes/idents a node quite well. I will confirm that node with another 3-5 shots.
I have had success with a brand new development around a bullet in as little as 15 rounds if I have my guesstimations down right. If starting from scratch with a new powder I will back off book max 2 grains and work up. So if max is 60 grains, ill start at 58. So 58, 58.5, 59, 59.5, 60, 60.5. 6 shots. Let's say 59 to 60 (60 no pressure, 60.5 shows signs) show lower es and 59.5-60 is lower than 59-59.5. I will run 59.3 to 60 in .2. So 59.3, 59.5, 59.7, 60. Let's go with 3 each. (you can do 2 if you are confident in your data reading skills). 12 shots. Let's say 59.5-59.7 are showing low sd and es. You can load 3-5 of each. 6-10 rounds. Or you can do 59.5, 59.6, 59.7.... 3 of each. I'd likely just do 59.5 and 59.7 for a 5 shot confirmation of sd and accuracy. 28-30 rounds and done. This is pretty much what Satterlee does.
Doom2
Well-Known Member
Don't think Scott does that anymore. Search on this and go to the Youtube link.
Load development for Precision Rifle. (The Scott Satterlee method v2.0)
BrentM
Well-Known Member
Have you watched that vid? The the first 2/3 of the vid is about seating depth. The last 1/3 is the same method. Scott routinely interacts with a page I manage and he still does the standard ladder he's been messing with for a few years. I sent him a message to see if anything has changed.
I watched a few of Scott's videos. They were very informative. Thanks for input on this. I have so much to learn and great resources like Scott and you guys are making it easier.
