The old 25-06 Remington and 270 Winchester shot flatter than 6.5 CM

FIGJAM said:
Another creed thread...sigh. The ---- creedmoor is taking over this website. I will comment on the 25-06, since I have one. Biggest down fall of the 25-06 is the lack if high bc bullets, therefore factory rifles aren't manufactured with twist rates that will stabilize a higher bc bullet. The 270 has more recoil than either the 6.5 or the 25-06 when shooting heavy for caliber bullets...
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Absolutely!!
 
Barrelnut said:
A 25-06 is just as bad as the Creedmoor. I know cause I have both.
Take the 25-06 to the range and everybody is telling me how much better their 243 or 270 is. Take the Creedmoor to the range and everybody is telling me how much better their 260 or 308 is.
Personally I like the Creedmoor better, but have taken way more game with the 25-06.
This year I took a deer with each just to spread the mojo around. Both worked fine.
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The 25-06 shoots flatter and hits with more energy than the CM.
 
Mach 1 said:
Just about everything hornady puts out is substandard. Whether it's bullets brass powder dispensers or the 6.5 creedmore. I really wish hornady made top end stuff but they make middle of the road crap. Im only 150 miles from grand island where they are based. It would be a good deal if their brass and bullets were better since their access is immediately available to me. I've said it before, the creedmore is good at a few things but its great at absolutely nothing. Prs guys like it for the relatively decent ballistics while maintaining reliable feeding in a short action.
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I've been shooting Hornady for years and still don't see how they make "middle of the road crap". For example I bought Norma brass for my .300 win mag because it was the only brass available at the time. I got one reload more than Hornady out of it before the necks split. So I paid twice as much for one extra firing, same with the Berger's, I paid $54 a box for the 215's and the 225's ended up shooting far better for $36 a box. If the ELDs had existed at the time and Hornady brass was in stock I could have saved near $200 instead of trying to get the Berger's to shoot.

In regards to the 6.5 Hornady's American Gunner has been some of the most accurate factory ammo I've ever seen. My dad and brother are both shooting it and are getting groups 1/2 MOA and less more often than not in their factory rifles.

Harvey Durham said:
The 25-06 shoots flatter and hits with more energy than the CM.
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Well it's a long action so it should, after all it's got 15 more grains of powder behind it and a 400 FPS velocity advantage. That's kind of like saying "the .257 Weatherby shoots flatter and hits with more energy than the .25-06"

Honestly I don't read all that many articles and such because many times they hype things up far past their capabilities. The 6.5 Creedmoor is simply better at being a long range target cartridge than the .308 while providing better terminal performance on medium size game than the 6mm's. I consider it the happy medium, the best balance between energy and trajectory in a short action with a standard bolt face. It's simple physics, there is only so much energy to make so much weight go a certain speed and still fit in a magazine. There are several 6.5mm cartridges in that performance envelope but of all of them the Creedmoor is the one that has gotten the most support while the diehards keep the others alive.
 
CMP70306 said:
Honestly I don't read all that many articles and such because many times they hype things up far past their capabilities. The 6.5 Creedmoor is simply better at being a long range target cartridge than the .308 while providing better terminal performance on medium size game than the 6mm's. I consider it the happy medium, the best balance between energy and trajectory in a short action with a standard bolt face. It's simple physics, there is only so much energy to make so much weight go a certain speed and still fit in a magazine. There are several 6.5mm cartridges in that performance envelope but of all of them the Creedmoor is the one that has gotten the most support while the diehards keep the others alive.
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This is it right here. 308 > 6.5 creed for hunting, 6mm > 6.5 creed for competition, but if you could only have 1 to do both it's a dandy little cartridge.
 
rustyshackleford said:
I certainly agree about the creed but I don't really think a 28 nosler or 7 mag is lacking for elk. Neither is 6.5-284 or 264 Win mag if people understand that they won't carry the energy the 7mm, 30 cal, or esp the 338 will. There's no replacement for displacement be that bullet mass or powder capacity
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Hello rustyshackleford, please read my post again, especially the last sentence. I wrote: "I'll go out on a limb here and probably get beat up pretty bad, but I will state that "any caliber that is sub 30 caliber" (.257 to .284) will be hard pressed to beat the performance of the .270WSM; I suspect that I'll get some flack from the 26-28 Nosler crowd here:rolleyes:! This doesn't mean that it is the catch all, do all caliber, just that it is a pretty good performer for just about any long range shooting on game.". I didn't say the .270WSM is the catch all, do all caliber just that one would be hard pressed to beat its performance, there are good calibers that will outperform it as well. From the Nosler Reloading Guide#8 all comparison made with a 140gr bullet: .270WSM-3200fps, 28 Nosler 3500fps, 7mmRemMag 3300fps, 7mm WSM 3200FPS, 26 Nosler 3200fps, .270Win 3000fps, .264WinMag 3000fps, 6.5-.284 3000fps, 6.5-06 2900fps, 260 Remington 2800fps, 6.5 Creedmore 2750fps, 6.5 Grendell (125 gr bullet) 2500fps. These ballistics were from 24 and 26 inch barrels, the 26 inch barrels were mostly Wiseman proof barrels. With the exception of the 28 Nosler the .270WSM holds its own with the rest, and what I wrote is a generalization nothing more. And......something that I'd like to address here about the person (won't call anyone names, however.......) in reference to the "ole guy who is stuck in his ways" !! Statements such as this really --ss me off because it shows a lack of respect for a person. Apparently whoever is making a commentary like this is young, and as such making a statement as harsh as this is like the guy who gives comments on how good their Creedmore is on killing an elk at a 1000 yards, but has never shot an elk!! With that I'm going to make a comment: Thus because you are young you are not there/here yet (ole), so you really do not know what you are talking about when you make such a comparison of comparing "ole" as something inferior!! I've been shooting since I was eight years old, hunting since I was fifteen years old, thirty years law enforcement, five years SWAT, fifteen years armorer, fifteen years tactical firearms instructor. "The only source of knowledge is experience." Albert Einstein. I'm seventy-two years "ole", sharp as a tack, and I consider myself one of the lucky ones because I made it this far!! I'm done with the dissertation, said my piece!
 
therifleman556 said:
Nope. Flatter yes for a little bit but it loses in energy past 300. I'm no 6.5 guy (own a 25-06 though), but ballistics don't lie.
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I just glanced at federal's premium loads for each cartridge. The 25-06 is a 110, the 6.5 is a 140, and both are accubonds. It looks like another case of mfg's failing to make a projectile that can take andvantage of the powder capacity. A ~125gr .257 accubond might tell a different story. I'm neither a .257 or 6.5 bore fan. For some reason both those bores seem to attract loons.
 
Alibiiv said:
Hello rustyshackleford, please read my post again, especially the last sentence. I wrote: "I'll go out on a limb here and probably get beat up pretty bad, but I will state that "any caliber that is sub 30 caliber" (.257 to .284) will be hard pressed to beat the performance of the .270WSM; I suspect that I'll get some flack from the 26-28 Nosler crowd here:rolleyes:! This doesn't mean that it is the catch all, do all caliber, just that it is a pretty good performer for just about any long range shooting on game.". I didn't say the .270WSM is the catch all, do all caliber just that one would be hard pressed to beat its performance, there are good calibers that will outperform it as well. From the Nosler Reloading Guide#8 all comparison made with a 140gr bullet: .270WSM-3200fps, 28 Nosler 3500fps, 7mmRemMag 3300fps, 7mm WSM 3200FPS, 26 Nosler 3200fps, .270Win 3000fps, .264WinMag 3000fps, 6.5-.284 3000fps, 6.5-06 2900fps, 260 Remington 2800fps, 6.5 Creedmore 2750fps, 6.5 Grendell (125 gr bullet) 2500fps. These ballistics were from 24 and 26 inch barrels, the 26 inch barrels were mostly Wiseman proof barrels. With the exception of the 28 Nosler the .270WSM holds its own with the rest, and what I wrote is a generalization nothing more. And......something that I'd like to address here about the person (won't call anyone names, however.......) in reference to the "ole guy who is stuck in his ways" !! Statements such as this really --ss me off because it shows a lack of respect for a person. Apparently whoever is making a commentary like this is young, and as such making a statement as harsh as this is like the guy who gives comments on how good their Creedmore is on killing an elk at a 1000 yards, but has never shot an elk!! With that I'm going to make a comment: Thus because you are young you are not there/here yet (ole), so you really do not know what you are talking about when you make such a comparison of comparing "ole" as something inferior!! I've been shooting since I was eight years old, hunting since I was fifteen years old, thirty years law enforcement, five years SWAT, fifteen years armorer, fifteen years tactical firearms instructor. "The only source of knowledge is experience." Albert Einstein. I'm seventy-two years "ole", sharp as a tack, and I consider myself one of the lucky ones because I made it this far!! I'm done with the dissertation, said my piece!
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My apologies. I misread the statement about anything sub 30 cal being hard pressed-and I guess I started skimming. So my post about 28 and 6.5 didn't contradict anything you said but I definitely misread what you wrote. What's funny is the only bore I am prejudiced against is .277 but I know still a good one haha.
 
rustyshackleford said:
My apologies. I misread the statement about anything sub 30 cal being hard pressed-and I guess I started skimming. So my post about 28 and 6.5 didn't contradict anything you said but I definitely misread what you wrote. What's funny is the only bore I am prejudiced against is .277 but I know still a good one haha.
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Thanks for writing back. I figured that I was going to hear about the .270 WSM comment, that's the reason that I wrote it carefully as I did. I never really was a great .270 Winchester fan until I picked an older, beat up Ruger 77 round top that was really cheep ($400 with a VARI X III 3.5 X 10 scope), it was too good of a deal to pass up. I started shooting it and found that the recoil was not bad and it was very accurate. From there my son started shooting it at 300 yards and really fell in love with it. We bear hunt so our rifles basically are .35 and .45 calibers with the exception of the 30-06 and a .308 Winchester and one Encore in 7mmRemMag. A friend bought a new Winchester mod 70 in .270WSM, and I shot that and really liked the rifle, how it performed and the low recoil on his rifle. He took the rifle on a mule deer/antelope hunt in Wyoming (?) shot an antelope at 320 yards and a mule deer at 486 yards, both one shot and DRT. I started reading up on the .270WSM caliber and found it to be quite interesting. I wanted something different because I like to mess with and tinker with rifles, so now I am having two Ruger 77s built in .270 AI.; my son will be the lucky recipient of the second one. I also consider the .280 AI another good caliber. I like this forum a lot and consider if to be like going to a gun shop or sitting around a campfire at a hunting camp and talking guns and ballistics. And.....it's been a really good resource for shooting and reloading ammunition. Lots of great knowledge and experience here.
 
I didn't read 7 pages, but since this argument been had.
Compare a 25-06 with a 115 vld bullet vs a 6.5 with a 123gr. The bc are similar and they shoot at a very similar velocity. There's little difference.

The argument they should be making is not: this cartridge is better than this cartridge, but this bullet is a better option for the majority of hunters. Example, a 123sst is slippery for its weight class and is a better option for moderate ranges than a 143eldx in a 6.5cm and then you have the flat 25-06 trajectory
 
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CMP70306 said:
I've been shooting Hornady for years and still don't see how they make "middle of the road crap". For example I bought Norma brass for my .300 win mag because it was the only brass available at the time. I got one reload more than Hornady out of it before the necks split. So I paid twice as much for one extra firing, same with the Berger's, I paid $54 a box for the 215's and the 225's ended up shooting far better for $36 a box. If the ELDs had existed at the time and Hornady brass was in stock I could have saved near $200 instead of trying to get the Berger's to shoot.

In regards to the 6.5 Hornady's American Gunner has been some of the most accurate factory ammo I've ever seen. My dad and brother are both shooting it and are getting groups 1/2 MOA and less more often than not in their factory rifles.



Well it's a long action so it should, after all it's got 15 more grains of powder behind it and a 400 FPS velocity advantage. That's kind of like saying "the .257 Weatherby shoots flatter and hits with more energy than the .25-06"

Honestly I don't read all that many articles and such because many times they hype things up far past their capabilities. The 6.5 Creedmoor is simply better at being a long range target cartridge than the .308 while providing better terminal performance on medium size game than the 6mm's. I consider it the happy medium, the best balance between energy and trajectory in a short action with a standard bolt face. It's simple physics, there is only so much energy to make so much weight go a certain speed and still fit in a magazine. There are several 6.5mm cartridges in that performance envelope but of all of them the Creedmoor is the one that has gotten the most support while the diehards keep the others alive.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing u need to anneal your brass. No where in the world is hornady and Norma brass on the same level.
 

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