The old 25-06 Remington and 270 Winchester shot flatter than 6.5 CM

I didn't read 7 pages, but since this argument been had.
Compare a 25-06 with a 115 vld bullet vs a 6.5 with a 123gr. The bc are similar and they shoot at a very similar velocity. There's little difference.

The argument they should be making is not: this cartridge is better than this cartridge, but this bullet is a better option for the majority of hunters. Example, a 123sst is slippery for its weight class and is a better option for moderate ranges than a 143eldx in a 6.5cm and then you have the flat 25-06 trajectory
What kind of velocity are you getting with the 123s? 3000 fps? I am asking, I don't reload for the 6.5 yet. I buy those 120gr hornady match loads for my son's gun. I think those are rolling along at 2910 or something like that. I am guessing you can push it quite a bit harder if you roll your own. I think you would still be well under 25-06 velocity with 115s. My 25-06 has a 26" pipe, so my numbers are a little higher, but even with a 24" barrel I am thinking you should be at 3200 fps.
 
I've been shooting Hornady for years and still don't see how they make "middle of the road crap". For example I bought Norma brass for my .300 win mag because it was the only brass available at the time. I got one reload more than Hornady out of it before the necks split. So I paid twice as much for one extra firing, same with the Berger's, I paid $54 a box for the 215's and the 225's ended up shooting far better for $36 a box. If the ELDs had existed at the time and Hornady brass was in stock I could have saved near $200 instead of trying to get the Berger's to shoot.

In regards to the 6.5 Hornady's American Gunner has been some of the most accurate factory ammo I've ever seen. My dad and brother are both shooting it and are getting groups 1/2 MOA and less more often than not in their factory rifles.



Well it's a long action so it should, after all it's got 15 more grains of powder behind it and a 400 FPS velocity advantage. That's kind of like saying "the .257 Weatherby shoots flatter and hits with more energy than the .25-06"

Honestly I don't read all that many articles and such because many times they hype things up far past their capabilities. The 6.5 Creedmoor is simply better at being a long range target cartridge than the .308 while providing better terminal performance on medium size game than the 6mm's. I consider it the happy medium, the best balance between energy and trajectory in a short action with a standard bolt face. It's simple physics, there is only so much energy to make so much weight go a certain speed and still fit in a magazine. There are several 6.5mm cartridges in that performance envelope but of all of them the Creedmoor is the one that has gotten the most support while the diehards keep the others alive.

With every gun I've ever owned the 215 Berger's would out shoot any of the eld hornady bullets. I gave them a good chance but they just don't. The 215 Berger's only downfall is the fact that the seating depth has to be spot on every round or the groups open up fast.
 
What kind of velocity are you getting with the 123s? 3000 fps? I am asking, I don't reload for the 6.5 yet. I buy those 120gr hornady match loads for my son's gun. I think those are rolling along at 2910 or something like that. I am guessing you can push it quite a bit harder if you roll your own. I think you would still be well under 25-06 velocity with 115s. My 25-06 has a 26" pipe, so my numbers are a little higher, but even with a 24" barrel I am thinking you should be at 3200 fps.
My buddy has a 25-06 with a 22" pipe, we made a load right around 3k with the 115s. Shot like crap at higher velocity.
I shot the 115 at 3280 with my wby(24")could go faster, but it where it shot so you're cooking them at 3200
A 120 will shoot around 3k, depending on what the rifle likes, either could be lower or higher.
 
My 25-06 seems to like shorter bullets with longer bearing surface for their weight, like Sierra 100~117 gr bullets. It will not shoot the 115 Berger well at all. That limits it's performance at longer ranges. I think this may be common with the 25-06 because lots of people like the Sierras Gamekings or Nosler BT in their 25-06.
This makes it fairly easy for a 6.5 CM to beat it at distance with winddrift, energy, and drop. Cause a CM is usually not picky. It will shoot almost any high BC 120 to 140 grain bullet extremely well.
When comparing the 25-06 to the 6.5 CM is is easy to end up with numbers like these below. This is Federal ammo with a 117 Sierra in 25-06 vs a 130 berger in a 6.5 CM.
https://www.federalpremium.com/prod...ration={7FF5C5E6-B60E-4CA5-A1AE-07A721FB1CC4}
 
I went from using a 300 WSM to the 6.5 CM for whitetails when hunting in Texas. I liked the DRT on whitetails that the 300 with 150 Nosler Silver Ballistic Tips had but I really like the smooth shooting of the 6.5 and it kills quickly with 143 ELD-X bullets.
 
Back when I started shooting 1K BR in Pella, Iowa, they had a stock gun class. So I found a used Sendero in 25-06 to play the game with, and worked up a dandy load with 115 VLD's at 3200. Set the range record with that gun with a 4.XX" group.

Always had a soft spot for the cartridge after that, but have not owned one since.
 
https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/25-06-remington-beats-6-5-creedmoor/

Best part is you have no problem finding brass or loaded ammo since they are not proprietary at this point. You can find everything from Remington Core-Lokt to boutique exotic loaded ammo. Plenty of new and used rifles to chose from as well. No matter who goes out of bussiness someone will always be making brass for these and chambering rifles for these you can not say that about the 6.5CM or the 6.5 PRC.
I love my 25 06 Sendero.
 
My buddy has a 25-06 with a 22" pipe, we made a load right around 3k with the 115s. Shot like crap at higher velocity.
I shot the 115 at 3280 with my wby(24")could go faster, but it where it shot so you're cooking them at 3200
A 120 will shoot around 3k, depending on what the rifle likes, either could be lower or higher.

I am running the 115 vld over a max load of H4831 at over 3250...26" pipe though. That was where my accuracy node was - it got me 1" groups at 200 and I stopped load development. Rifle is a sendero SFII...I ran it through two different chronographs because I thought mine was broken.
 
I live in northern Manitoba CANADA right next to the DUCK MOUNTAIN PROVINCIAL FOREST (park) the BS is not as thick here as it is up there TRUMP has not been to the wash room for a long time I don't visit the USA at all I'm also a registered big game guide i send a lot of American's to their country with very happy remarks.
  • :)
 
Well I got a 270 and shot the throat out of my 25-06. This past year I purchased a Tikka in 6.5creedmoor it's a fabulous shooter with 143gr eldx. I think I'll sell the creedmoor and rebarrel the 25-06. I did jump on the creedmoor band wagon but it's a boring cartridge for me. It's my 2cents. Shoot what ya like.
Be well and keep burning powder.
 
Long time listener, first time caller.
Why do these threads always degenerate into calm, rational discussions about ballistics? ;P

I had high hopes for the .308 vs .30-06, but...

Y'all realize this is the internet, right? That sort of behavior has no place here.
 
Spomer is full of crap. He made a video claiming the 6.5CM outperformed a 300WM. His basis was a 6.5 with a high BC hunting bullet and a Win Mag with a heavy Core-lokt. Not what I'd baselines and normalized comparisons.
 
I have killed elk, black bear and mule and whitetails with my 25-06 and my 7MM mag and I think the 6.5 creedmore needs to fade away. I do not think it can compare to the 25-06 at 500 yards and I haven't even looked up the ballistics tables. Just my feel. I have dropped bear, elk and deer in their tracks or within 25 yards with my 25-06. It is an excellent caliber. Ane the 6.5 Creed more isn't even in the same league with the 7MM mag.
 
Top