Tragic bear attack in Wyoming

This is most likely true..But who would know the bear was even dead?
Loose lips....But I would rather face their charges than get Ripped to Shreds
Wouldn't you?


"The sad truth of the matter is, that if the pistol and bear spray were reversed, and the guide had killed the bear before anyone got hurt, WITHOUT the bear spray being deployed first, the same officials who bring guns and NOT bear spray would probably be questioning if the bear really did need killed, or was it bluffing........"

People have shot bears here with no sign of aggression while retrieving downed game and nothing has come of it.

If I employ a firearm effectively, the bear dies.
Even if I employ bear spray effectively, in accordance with the instructions, the bear remains alive and can kill me. That's presuming the can of bear spray actually discharges when I squeeze the go button.
I've already shared in another thread in years gone by the incident where my co-worker brought his can of bear spray to work to show me and other interested co-workers how to use it. The can was a dud. Never sprayed a thing. That's what we all looked like while we considered what we'd just witnessed.
So next I discuss this incident with the local F&G employee who teaches bear defense training to other State employees. He tells me he had a dud can of bear spray during one of his classes.
BS on that nonsense! This happened to be one of the "good" F&G employees, a man more interested in my health and safety than the F&G company line.
He told me he had no use for bear spray. Never carried it. His bear defense? Rem 870 with Brenneke slugs.
He also told me after years of responding to bear maulings, deaths, and other nuisance bear complaints associated with his assigned duties that he viewed bears as nothing more than opportunistic predators.
If after reading this, you still believe in, and choose, bear spray..., may God be with you. Because the bears aren't on your team.
Can't say I didn't try... It's still an individual choice. If you're competent with a firearm, the choice is stupid obvious - for me.

Remember these words and you will never have to worry about being prosecuted. 'I feared for my life".

phorwath said:

........If I employ a firearm effectively, the bear dies.......Even if I employ bear spray effectively, in accordance with the instructions, the bear remains alive and can kill me. That's presuming the can of bear spray actually discharges when I squeeze the go button.........

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If a firearm is used an aggressive bear is removed from the gene pool.

If spray is used what did the bear learn??? It would be interesting to know if this bear had been sprayed before, and modified it's approach based on that experience???

I know of one incident of a bear spray on a counter that a customer activated briefly as a joke-nearly killed another asthmatic customer.

Indeed, my train of thought was interrupted earlier when I stated I've been required to carry bear spray by as part of PPE protocol on certain leases and RoW's.

We are not allowed to fly with the stuff though, and for the same reasons I won't allow bear spray in the cab of a vehicle with me. Heard a lot of stories of poor handling protocols resulting in discharge in a vehicle. I treat the stuff as more of a LIABILITY than an asset.

Hand Skills said:

Still, I agree with the statement 'this story does not prove bear spray ineffective'.

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Would you agree bear spray was ineffective for this guide, on this bear? He did deploy it. Officials said they smelled bear spray while examining and handling the dead bear's head. The can of bear spray was reported to be empty.

General comments:
With regard to F&G bias, why wouldn't they simply stick to the facts: bear spray was used on this bear and it failed to stop the bear's attack or save the victim's life. Here's the F&G Jackson area supervisor's statement, copied and pasted from the news article:

"We feel that he deployed that bear spray sometime after the initial attack, but before he succumbed to his injuries," he said. "A lot of people have said, 'Well, he sprayed the bear, and it didn't do any good.' We can't say that. We can't say that bear spray wasn't completely effective."

Say what!? The man was killed. He's dead. Isn't it obvious - the bear spray wasn't completely effective! How much less effective could it be?

As I consider the story, if the guide had time to deploy bear spray before the fatal bite or blow, he also had time to discharge a firearm, had one been accessible. He probably was proficient with that firearm. He was a big game guide, and it was his pistol. Wish he'd had it with him. No insensitivity here. Without discussion, we live, and don't learn very much.

phorwath said:

Would you agree bear spray was ineffective for this guide, on this bear? He did deploy it. Officials said they smelled bear spray while examining and handling the dead bear's head. The can of bear spray was reported to be empty.


With regard to F&G bias, why wouldn't they simply stick to the facts: bear spray was used on this bear and it failed to stop the bear's attack or save the victim's life. Here's the F&G Jackson are supervisor's statement, copied and pasted from the news article:

"We feel that he deployed that bear spray sometime after the initial attack, but before he succumbed to his injuries," he said. "A lot of people have said, 'Well, he sprayed the bear, and it didn't do any good.' We can't say that. We can't say that bear spray wasn't completely effective."

Say what! The man was killed. He's dead. Isn't it obvious that the bear spray wasn't completely effective! How much less effective could it?

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Hard disagree with the facts.

Hard to read double negatives too...

Whatever some official can or cannot say 'on the record' is of little consequence.

To me the strangest part of this story is how an 8yr old sow was reported to weigh 250lbs?

"10 other injury incidents in the last couple of years where capture wasn't attempted"

Wouldn't it be interesting to know if this bear was involved, and officials rationalized it away?

Hand Skills said:

To me the strangest part of this story is how an 8yr old sow was reported to weigh 250lbs?

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It weren't no Alaskan brown bear. That's for sure. (My double negative! )

I've been following this story since sunday. I've started to write a comment and can't get my words to come out the way I think they should. This situation hits to close home not to say anything. I have been hunting in this unit 2 different times. I did not go with the outfitter, but I do know the owner personally. He is a stand up guy and very professional. I did not know the guide that was killed, but my sincere prayers go to his family.

Looking back over both times I was out it makes me realize how careless we were about things and how easy it is to not take the problem as serious as one should. The first time we thought it wasn't that big of a deal, but after talking with some of the locals got us really thinking. We were rifle hunting and had bear spray on our packs. We were successful at harvesting 2 elk and a mule deer. We have pictures with our spray out, kind of making half a joke but then 5 minutes later the spray was back hooked on the pack and the rifles were 15 yards away while we were field dressing the animals. Looking back that is absolutely crazy. We have pictures beside a road that was shut down due to aggressive grizzly activity.

The next time we were alitte more prepared, but we still got into some situations. One morning I followed 3 sets of what seemed to be older bear tracks up the trail. Thinking they were atleast the night before I continued going up. the tracks went off the trail and then reappeared in a few hundred yards. But this time they looked extremely fresh. I ended up going a different route because I didn't want to follow the tracks. A few hours later I saw a mule deer buck and shot it. I never did end up seeing those bears, but i'm telling you, skinning and quartering an animal by your self in grizzly country will get your nerves on end. I got everything back to camp and the meat taken care of but left the antlers about 75 yards away from camp up in a tree hanging on a branch about the size of your wrist. My buddys rack was on the branch beside. We got up one morning to find the branch broke and my antlers gone and my buddies still there but the skull was snapped at the eye socket.

Just a few times where we did not have any real trouble, but things could of gone bad in a hurry. I hope pictures show up but they are from an other situation that could of went bad in a hurry, but was able to leave with any trouble. This post isn't to tell about my hunting trip. I am just trying to say how easy it is to get "careless" with how you think about the bears and what they can do. That area is so beautiful and wonderful to hunt. I hope to go back out in 2019. You just have to be every so aware of the bears and do not trust them for a second.

phorwath said:

Kmccord,
Your friend accepts the risks associated with those hunts. I respect his freedom of choice. But it's not for me.

Just like free-style mountain climbers accept the risks of climbing the vertical faces of mountains without ropes and climbing harnesses. Not for me.

Most don't accept those risks. Otherwise this Thread would have died out after just a few informative posts.

I know Fred Bear would not have survived at least one polar bear hunt had his guide not killed the charging bear. Fred Bear liked to hunt as much or more so than most. So much that he preferred not dying in the process. I guess that's another way of viewing the passion for hunting. I try to stay healthy so I can continue to enjoy my first and foremost hobby.

Every time I've seen video of Mr. Bear hunting bear, there was also a guide armed with a long gun.

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That is what I would want also, a tag along with the ones retrieving the kill with a large caliber rifle would have probably prevented anyone from being killed !

KyCarl said:

This is most likely true..But who would know the bear was even dead?
Loose lips....But I would rather face their charges than get Ripped to Shreds
Wouldn't you?


"The sad truth of the matter is, that if the pistol and bear spray were reversed, and the guide had killed the bear before anyone got hurt, WITHOUT the bear spray being deployed first, the same officials who bring guns and NOT bear spray would probably be questioning if the bear really did need killed, or was it bluffing........"

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I would rather be trialed by 12 than carried by 6..... Any question and its a dead bear.

Please go in pairs. Many years ago in my 40's i fell about 6 feet on some slick mud down into a small gulley. I thought that i was bruised up and nothing else. I laid in the gulley for maybe 10 minutes and decided that i had better gomto my truck.
I pulled myself out of the gulley and decided that i had better call it a day and headed for my truck. About 100 yards or so into my journey i had to sit down for a spell. Upon trying to get up and found i could not do it so i had to abandon my gunand crawl on my hands and knees to the truck. After getting to the truck, it took everything i had to get in the truck
I stayed in the bed four days after i got home and was getting worse. My wife insisted on me going to an er and they found that i had fracture compressed two vertrbrae in my spine.
It took almost 10 years to get over that completly. The moral of the story, i was lucky that i was hunting in less of a mile from home. Don't go any where without a flight plan. Cell phones make things a lot safer today but you need someone to know where at.
This happened when i was in my early 40's and bullet proof, now in my mid 60's no way would i go anywhere without a partner. If i was in griz country that day i would have been a prime target for supper