Michael Courtney
Silver Member
Since 2000, we've had much better accuracy from off the shelf Savages than off the shelf Remington 700s.
25-06 elk bullets
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Since 2000, we've had much better accuracy from off the shelf Savages than off the shelf Remington 700s.
Haven't had any problems with the newer 700s that I have seen shoot.
morcey2
Well-Known Member
Also, this thread can't be right...
According to the internet you HAVE to have a .338 Lapua or bigger to kill elk...
Yeah. I'm obviously not adequately armed for the armor plated elk and mule deer with my lowly 30-06 and 8x57. I was talking to some of the guys I work with about doing an elk hunt a couple of years ago and when they found out I would be taking a 'mere' 30-06, they looked at me like I had tentacles and gills. One offered to let me borrow his 300 WM which was "barely enough for mulies, but still better than the ought-six for elk." His usual gun for everything is a 300 RUM or 30-378 Wby. The other guy uses a 8mm Remington Magnum.
Again, I'm a novice in these things and wonder why game these days is so much tougher than it was even 30 years ago. Maybe a milsurp javelin missile will be necessary in another 30 years.
Matt
I'm looking forward to building my 20mm bolt action rifle for future elk hunting. Should get me to at least 600yds. Haha.
Michael Courtney
Silver Member
Back in the 1990s, we bought a bunch of Rem 700s. There were some issues with the finishes and the scope mounting holes and other details, but every one was a shooter. The thin barreled rifles would shoot any ammo we tried into 2 MOA and it was not too hard to find a good factor load or try a few things and get a hand load under 1 MOA. And some of these were $300 guns. My daughter still shoots a .223 ADL into .5 MOA. The thick barrelled guns would all shoot any ammo into 1 MOA and working up a 0.5 MOA hunting load was no big deal. We have not seen a new Rem 700 bought after 2000 that we could say that about. None of them will shoot without a lot of fiddling, and more often than not, a custom barrel.
In contrast, my daughter competes in benchrest with a Savage .222 Rem Varmint rifle, and my best long range groups ever are with a recent Savage .300 Win Mag.
I'm sure some new Rem 700s shoot just fine, but my point is that it's a crap shoot. And accuracy should not be a crap shoot when you're laying down over a grand on a heavy barrel gun that is advertised to be accurate. Further, if a Rem 700 just won't shoot, you have to have a gunsmith replace the barrel and cut the new chamber, etc. If a Savage won't shoot, you order a new barrel for $350 or so and screw it on yourself. We have not had to do that yet.
morcey2
Well-Known Member
I'd be all over that if they could make it in a short action.... saves weight.
You're catching on! Also have to have that "spaghetti" contour 18" mountain barrel. Out fit it with a lightweight stock. If I'm lucky I will find a load that is flat to 600yds at its max killing range.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
I wish I would have been there to hear that convo and to interject. I wish the punk behind the counter would have given me lip, too. Then I'd pull out pictures of groups from my factory 700 5R .308, and shut him up real quick...
If I was the manager, it would have took all I had in me not to snatch him across the counter and beat him down, for making such a stupid comment like that. Especially in front of a customer. Arrogance and ignorance like that is an embarrassment to the gun comunity, and there's no place for it, especially since he obviously (by his comment) doesn't know jack-crap about guns or hunting.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
There's no way...Unless you're comparing $379 ADL specials, 710's, & 770's to the highest end Savages. Then I could believe you. But I've only seen 1 700 that wouldn't group (that wasn't shot-out), but had a dead-on pinwheel cold-bore zero. However, shots 2 & 3 where a crap-shoot as to where they'd land. That barrel got snatched quick.
I too, used to sell guns at a local outdoors store back around 2002. The number one gun we sent back to the mfg for lack of grouping was Savage. The model 10 and it's long-action counterpart (I want to say the 110?), to be specific.
I'll never say Savages are junk, but I do have my reasons why I'll never own one.
Michael Courtney
Silver Member
I'm glad your Rem 700 5R shoots for you. Mine was horrible. Rem 700s are a crap shoot.
idaho elk hunter
Well-Known Member
I have worked on a few 25 06 in the accumark series. I have yet to see one that would not shoot under .5 loaded with a 100 gr ttsx and a very stiff load of rl 25. 3650 fps with win brass and a 215 primer. Drops 20 in at 500 yds sited in at 300 yds. I believe this is the best killing load for the 25 06.
It does not replace the 7mm cartridges that will work better.
I have hunted Alaska on a specialized "white" grizzley hunt and had the unfortunate luck of the airline loose my rifle! I shot the thing with a open sighted 303 brit! One shot and 10 seconds is all it took.
In Sweden I had a trip with my wife's family and hunted moose. The guide laughed at our 338 boomer and stated all that regularly hunt moose in their country use the 6.5x55 and drop them in one shot.
He went on to say as Americans we do believe if a little is good..then a lot is better.
I responded that poor bullet placement is never a good thing.. That I have never seen a rodent walk away with poor bullet placement from a 50 BMG. isn't much left of a mouse when it hits it in the guts instead of the heart/vitals. The guide didn't have much to say. Americans get it done.
It does not replace the 7mm cartridges that will work better.
I have hunted Alaska on a specialized "white" grizzley hunt and had the unfortunate luck of the airline loose my rifle! I shot the thing with a open sighted 303 brit! One shot and 10 seconds is all it took.
In Sweden I had a trip with my wife's family and hunted moose. The guide laughed at our 338 boomer and stated all that regularly hunt moose in their country use the 6.5x55 and drop them in one shot.
He went on to say as Americans we do believe if a little is good..then a lot is better.
I responded that poor bullet placement is never a good thing.. That I have never seen a rodent walk away with poor bullet placement from a 50 BMG. isn't much left of a mouse when it hits it in the guts instead of the heart/vitals. The guide didn't have much to say. Americans get it done.
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Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, I guess for every Rem 5R story of poor performance can be met by 10 stories of good performance. Mine sure shots good and many other have good reports as well.
I had only one Sav & it was a Var. tubed 22-250 that did not do so well, but I have seen many savages thatr really shoot.
Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
MudRunner, I am glad you don't get emotional about anything!
Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
True, some of the heavier NBT's in the heavier weights for caliber have been toughened up in recent years.Check out the thickness of the 168 30cal, over 60% of the weight is in the jacket!
My Eldest Son uses the 115BT to great effect on Whitetails!
