6.5 smk recovered

[bigbuck]

208 AMAX out of a 300 RUM should get the job done

Bigbuck

 

[elkaholic]

From experiences I've had in the past with testing my own bullets ,and many others as well,this picture doesn't surprise me at all! I think you would find that the Berger and others with that small of meplat will perform the same. Even with the thin nose, you need something to get the expansion started. An example would be the A-Max with the ballistic tip. Not sure where the animal was hit but the only way you MIGHT get expansion at that velocity would be if you hit some solid bone early upon entering......Rich

 

[longrange700]

fiftydriver was spot on if you want to take game beyond 800 yards you should use a 30 or 338 cal magnum with a big bullet, I am starting out my long range hunting with a 308. and I would not shoot past 800 yards and prefer it 600 and in I am using the a-maxs because I know what they will do at longer distances, a friend used my gun and load a week ago and killed a big whitetail buck at 550 the a-max went all the way through and left a 2'' exit hole it was instant death.

 

[Rimfire]

"Was the deer dead"

If not I hope there is video of the bullet being recovered

I love this topic don't use target bullets for hunting, use hunting bullets, shoot paper with match bullets etc. At least give examples of what you base it on. Did you shoot one deer and male a decision? For this type of hunting I'll take an adequate performing bullet with above average accuracy any time. You need to know your bullet and sometimes this cant be based on what others tell you. I've shot deer with 6.5 Matchkings and stopped because of mixed performance. But a 308 175 SMK is a different animal dumpier shape work fine. Yea a few ran and died, most with a 2" exit. Out of the last 20 I shot half went bang flop. All were shot over 300 yards most of them shot between 500-600 yards. As for a 308 175 SMK not expanding, thats a good one.

 

[elkaholic]

Fiftydriver makes some pretty accurate points......Rich

 

[bigngreen]

Thanks for posting up that pic Bud, recovered bullets and wound channel tell the story of terminal performance.
I'm trying my best to recover my bullets so I can post them up like you have so everyone can get a feel of what happens with a certain bullet and cartridge combo, I'm running the Accubonds and Bergers.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thanks for posting up that pic Bud, recovered bullets and wound channel tell the story of terminal performance.
I'm trying my best to recover my bullets so I can post them up like you have so everyone can get a feel of what happens with a certain bullet and cartridge combo,

Plus 1...

I agree... good thread Bud. Very educational.

On the subject of small cal bullets vs big cal bullets.... I would much rather shoot a .277 bullet that expands into a deer or elk than a .338 cal bullet that does not expand or tumble, and tumbling is definitely not my preference for terminal effect.

A .338 bullet that does not expand, does not make a .338 cal hole. It creates a "temporary" wound channel, meaning, that as the bullet passes through, it "pushes" flesh aside rather than tearing and destroying it (permenant wound channel) The flesh then closes back in behind the unexpanded bullet leaving very little damage. Bigger cal bullets do not make up for nonexpanding bullets. Poor terminal performance is a recipie for lost game. It's not a matter of which to prefer... good accuracy or good terminal performance... In LRH you need BOTH.

 

[elkaholic]

I agree with much of what was said earlier, but on the question of expansion, I have to agree with Mtrifleman that bigger bore alone is not a substitute for expansion. In defense of earlier statements ;however, I think what was intended was that a bigger bore with greater energy is better than a smaller bore that is beyond it's range and doesn't expand
PROPERLY!

 

[Bud Martin]

Wow you guys were busy while I was gone for a day. Just to clarify things a bit, yes the deer was dead (how the hell you think I got the bullet?) it would not have been any deader if it was shot with the biggest baddest super duper 338 stroke your ego magnum. the bullet also preformed just as I thought it would, a berger bullet would preform basically the same. I have one here on my desk from last year and will post the pic with this reply. the reality is that these bullets kill differently than a bonded controlled expansion hunting bullet. the fact is they kill much like a arrow and require a very good hit to kill efficiently. the deer that took this smk bullet died in seconds. my point was to show you all recovered bullet from a VERY dead deer. both bullets in this pic are bergers, the one on the left is a 7mm 180vld recovered from a whitetail buck at 947 yards the bullet went thru the neck breaking the neck and stopped under the hide on the off side. this was a clients gun and I don't know the load info, the deer was also dead. the bullet on the right is 6.5 140 vld recovered from a antelope at 925 the bullet entered between the ribs and went thru vitals and was recoverd in the offside shoulder it passed thru bone in the shoulder. I have no idea where the jacket was we never found it. muzzel velocity was 3190 on this load. and yes this antelope was also dead. and while I could be wrong I doubt if any of these dead deer or antelope reall knew if they were hit by a little old 6.5 or 7mm bullet.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Bud, no flame intended here, but a non expanding bullet doesn't act anything like a broadhead. Broadheads have a large cross sectional cutting area that cause a lot of hemoraging. The primary cause of quick death to game animals other than catastrophic CNS damage is lack of blood to the brain. The lack of blood is due to low blood pressure which is due to hemoraging. The more hemoraging, the quicker the death. Nonexpanding spitzer type bullets do very little damage unless they they peirce a couple of heart chambers or happen to clip one or two major arteries. They basically slide through the animal leaving a small hole behind them un less they tumble. The two bullets in this pic both look like they have tumbled.

The deer in this case may be dead, but I have to ask why and only a thorough autopsy would answer the question. There are many other stories of game being hit with nonexpanding bullets that end differently than this one. I'm not going to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't do, but I'll never plan to hit a deer or elk with a bullet at velocities below it's anticipated expanding velocity.

Mark

 

[elkaholic]

Well stated MT. Rifle. I have also recovered bullets that looked similar to this from quite dead animals and that's why I started making my own to shoot at those distances. I figured probably sooner than later, I would end up with a different result. Not trying to pick on anyone. By the way, nice shooting Bud! I,m glad that DEAD deer didn't hurt you while you were performing the autopsy...Rich

 

[bigngreen]

Just and example but when running Mt lion I started out carrying large heavy hitters, 44mags and 357's, we found that nearly nearly all lion came down alive and would usually go for 50+ yrds, some farther with a good chest shot and they can get to some bad spots.
We then started packing 22 rf or mag and shooting them through the heart or lungs and we found they just don't flip out and go into drama mode and they fall out of the tree dead in under a minute. Almost always finding the bullets under the hide.
I think this also happens when shooting at longer ranges on game, they don't have a clue and they don't tence up, I've shot a few deer with a 22rf and they might spook alittle but then they go back to what they were doing then the lights just shut of and they fall over, fast, clean and no disterbance in the area.
More than one way to skin a cat gun)

 

[elkaholic]

I have noticed the same thing consistently on game shot a distance. They know something happened, but don't seem to associate with fear! If they move at all, they usually just walk a few steps......Rich

 

[Bud Martin]

Well after that description at least I know what a broadhead looks like now, and I am by no means a doctor qualified to do a autopsy but the hole thru one lung and heart sure looked like a bullet hole to me, and the blood on the ground and inside the chest cavity made it appear that he bled out so I naturally assumed thats why he died. I guess a broadhead wouldn't do that? after all these years watching things get shot with a arrow I really thought thats what they did. I'm going to have to start paying closer attention I guess. but now I'm stumped. I really did think the bullet was what killed him.