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Joe-boy,
Where does these kinds of comments come from? If frozen ammo was any kind of a problem, let alone dangerous, there wouldn't be a single Canadian hunter left alive. Ammo sits in a gun at -20 to -40 for hours before being fired at game. That same ammo might get refrozen a dozen times before being fired. NOTHING bad ever happened as a result of doing that.
Ok, freeze some, and let me know how it works out. You might be right, I'm just thinking back to something that I read in the past that kinda stuck in my mind and thought it might be cautionary to pass it on, yep... I could have remembered it wrong that's life, If it's not a problem... freeze the "H" out of it. Cheers
Another thought just came to mind. If you are taking multiple shots during cold weather the ammo, being somewhat cold soaked will be warming up when introduced into the chamber, which will be increasing the temperature with each shot. Different temps can cause differences in the muzzle velocity. Back when I was shooting competitively in the Army when shooting slow fire stages standing at 200 yards then prone at 600 yards we would not place the next cartridge into the chamber until we were ready to shoot it. The steps were ammo in, breathe in, breathe out aim and squeeze (press these days) The cartridge would not be in a hot chamber for more than 5 or 6 seconds. Worth a try. I have found that when dealing with silly issues like this silly answers usually cure the issue. Back then they told us that our Lake City Match ammo could change velocity up to 100 FPS with each ten degrees of temperature change. That sounds like a lot, but it seemed to work out that way on the targets. I never ran a Chrono on them to verify, but the proof was in the point of impact and group size.It's a pillar and glass bedded laminate stock with very sufficient clearance between the barrel and the stock. The world is full of guns that work just fine with this setting so I'm having a hard time to think guns couldn't work with pillar bedded laminate stocks. Also worth mentioning it has a varmint barrel.
12 twist for 223 has been around for ages and is widely used. It sure does limit the length/weight of the bullets to be used, but there are millions of guns that shoot just fine with the 12 twist. Also at least brownells states the 53 grain vmax should work with 12 twist. Also the stability should be better in hotter climate, not worse. On the other hand, when things were working it was a 100 m range, this time it was 150 meters. The 53 grain vmax is a long bullet for its weight and the stability depends on the length of the bullet, not the weight, so some heavier bullets may actually be even shorter if they are blunt nose and flat base.
The zero was just fine, it's the grouping that sucks. Or well, difficult to say if it's half an inch this or that way when the group is all over the place, but no significant zero change.
Thank you all for the comments. I still think the two best guesses are
1)Something weird with the stability, maybe starting to lose the stability after 100 meters. I know the stability of the bullet with 12 twist could be better but as mentioned, it has grouped just fine in colder weather
2)The barrel harmonics node is super narrow which causes the load to "exit the node" when the temperature changes.
The poor grouping was consistent and repeatable while I was shooting way better with other loads.
I'll try the freezer trick next time I go to the range and report back. There's a risk we might learn something from this
I "freeze some" every year and have for over 50 years. Everyone that hunts here does the same. When we hunt in real cold weather guns and ammo are left outside, not brought into the warm and back to the cold every day where condensation becomes an issue. That ammo might stay frozen for a month at a time.
I have never heard of any issues with cold or frozen ammo, however super heated ammo is a different story. Many years ago we were shooting across the National Match Course at the Racine County Line Range on an extremely hot day, if I remember the temperature was close to 100, which is odd for this part of the country. We were shooting the 600 yard prone stage, 20 shots, with 2 sighters within 22 minutes. There was a civilian shooter to my left shooting a Remington 700 and doing quite well. He was shooting reloads and his rifle seemed to really like the ammo. When we went to 600 yards he had some different ammo that he used for 600 yards. He went to his car, took the long range ammo out of the trunk of a car that had been sitting in the Sun at close to 100 degrees and took it to the firing line and got in position. When we were given the OK to shoot when he fired his first sighter his rifle blew up. Fortunately he only suffered minor injuries. Cold ammo is not a problem however one might be a bit cautious when shooting, as many of us do in extreme heat, especially if pushing the pressure limits with our reloads.
Just put in the cooler with your beer and water and you be ok. I'd take one at a time out and shoot to try and repeat what you did in cold weather.
Even inexpensive Chrony are accurate when set up properly. Flat, and square to line of flight with a fresh battery. Even if the speed is off a few fps, as long as all shots are read the same you should easily see the ES and velocity. To mess your groups that bad it would have to be a pretty noticeable jump.
Good point, and info, if it works well (frozen ammo) glad to hear it from a person that has played with it firsthand. Cheers
All, I misquoted that app. It's actually best in a 10 twist all the way up 3300fps and stable.
The 53 Z-Max/V-Max is a very long bullet for 53gr. A 12" twist will stabilize a number of 64gr bullets butter than it will stabilize that particular 53gr bullet.
Calculators are only a baseline of where to start. I've used it many times and had to increase or decrease speed to obtain accuracy. My problem is trying to get a hunting bullet to shoot like a target bullet and keep going down that rabbit hole.
Thank you for posting this, Very good read.
