Bullet selection is driving me nuts....

I will give up some BC for best terminal performance so I am a Barnes LRX devotee. I cannot tolerate a bullet that loses weight and mass upon or shortly after entry and this eliminates the Hammer and the unbonded cup and core bullets like Berger and the older, pre accubond Ballistic Tips. I swore off of Sierra's for anything larger than Coyotes in the 1980's.
 
I will give up some BC for best terminal performance so I am a Barnes LRX devotee. I cannot tolerate a bullet that loses weight and mass upon or shortly after entry and this eliminates the Hammer and the unbonded cup and core bullets like Berger and the older, pre accubond Ballistic Tips. I swore off of Sierra's for anything larger than Coyotes in the 1980's.
Why ,the HAMMER still will out penetrate the BARNES , even after shedding some weight . I don't understand , the terminal performance has been outstanding in my experience I switched from BARNES too HAMMERS for multiple reasons , more vel , less pressure , less fouling , more bullet choices , better customer service , better accuracy and they perform the same from 1800 fps too no limited impact vel .I have loaded and hunted with about all makes of bullets and I can honestly say even if I had a bad experience with a HAMMER bullet I would give the benefit of doubt too the bullet , because of the design and the experience of the performance of HAMMER BULLETS .
 
Possibly a depredation permit? Many states allow for these. I know 5-6 folks that get them every year and have actually helped out with some of that myself.
In MT (resident), I had 2 Mule deer surplus doe tags (could have got more) plus my local region doe tag and my general tag. That's 4 right there.
I only needed one, my Buck and Elk in the freezer is enough.
GA when I hunted at my friends lease it was 2 bucks and 10 does for the season.
Florida now has a 5 deer limit but it used to be a lot more. That doesn't include depredation tags which ups that number a lot.
Yep, lots of opportunities if you needed to feed a bunch of kids!
 
Gday
I will give up some BC for best terminal performance so I am a Barnes LRX devotee. I cannot tolerate a bullet that loses weight and mass upon or shortly after entry and this eliminates the Hammer and the unbonded cup and core bullets like Berger and the older, pre accubond Ballistic Tips. I swore off of Sierra's for anything larger than Coyotes in the 1980's.
With respect sir this dosent make sense
The part of will not tolerate losses weight mass above yet you seem to have only singled out the unbounded so does this mean the bonded retain 100% weight 🤷‍♂️

Bonded don't imo & the same with the Barnes lrx when you push them fast they loose petals but I also understand you may not be pushing them so that's why you are retaining petals but also on big bones they sometimes also shed petals @ more moderate impacts

If I've misunderstood please set me straight & no offence will be taken
Cheers
 
I feel like a dog chasing its tail. Lol

I have always been a Nosler Ballistic Tip guy and they have done very well for me, but I have been wanting to step up my long range game for hunting so I have been researching bullets with a better BC and maybe that holds up better on game, because it's seems that is what everyone is talking about now right..... But it seems that just when I think I have found one that I will try then I find all these bad reviews, which I know, obviously, no matter what you research you will find issues. I also know I am way over thinking this, as I do with most things in life, and I should just pick something and go with it.

I thought I had decided on Barnes LRX, yea I know, there BC is not good, but lots of folks rave about Barnes bullets and this is there long range bullet. So I tried it them out this year and wasn't overly impressed.

So I thought ok, I love Nosler bullets, I'm looking for good BC, something that holds together well, so I'll try the accubond long range. Well crude, there are more bad reviews on them than good.

In all my research it seems like Berger bullets always come up. Yes there are some bad reviews, but when I dig into them, it seems that most are blaming it on a plugged tip, and those that insure the tips are cleaned out, some are even drilling them out, have great luck. What gets me here is it seems lots of people, with seemingly with lots of experience, recommend the target bullets for hunting. What? I even had a very well known and experienced nilgai guide highly recommend 215 Berger Hybrid Target bullets for nilgai over accubonds and Barnes. I trust this guy as he is very successful with his clients who often shoot his rifle with those bullets. And nilgai are probably, IMO, some of the toughest, thickest skinned, animals in North America.

I honestly don't know why I'm rambling on about this, I'm sure most of you are thinking just pick something that shoots great out of my rifle and go with it. But I kinda want to start with a great bullet and go from there.

Anyone else going thru this chasing of the tail trying to pick a hunting bullet?

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Not that it really matters but I'm currently messing with my 7 SAUM, 28 Nosler, and 300 WM.
I gave up chasing my tail many years ago and have settled on a few choices dependent upon which rifle and what caliber. First of all I do not shoot exotic or wildcat load. They may be fun to play with and I do like playing but with calibers that I can easily buy commercially if push comes to shove. This means that I limit what I play with to: 22LR, 223, 243, 7mm, 270, 308, 30-06 and 300 WM. I am a firm believer, as was Colonel Townsend Whelen that, "Only accurate rifles are interesting." In my case that also extends to handguns too.

So my advice to alleviate the confusion, especially with hunting ammunition is simply select your rifle, it can be any caliber you fancy and can stand the recoil from. Base it on the largest animal that you intend to hunt keeping in mind that larger isn't always better. I know some may argue this but bullet placement is always a game changer rather than bullet size. It's been proven time after time that a lesser caliber and lesser bullet will kill if it's travels after impact are in the heart/lung area. This again is controversial in that thousand out there regularly hunt deer with a Modern Service Rifle chambered for the .223 or 5/56 NATO round. This is especially true of those who shoot using FMJ 55 or 62 gr bullets. In my home state of Wisconsin it is illegal to use non expanding ammo when hunting, yet it's done every year. If our Game Wardens started checking hunters out in the field using non expanding bullets the state could probably do away with it's sales tax due to the increased revenue from the fines. Yes I know that is also a bone of contention out here.

Continuing on, what works for someone else is most likely not going to work for you. What will work for you is selecting a appropriate bullet for the intended game, from one of the major bullet manufacturers and then tuning it to your rifle by varying the reloading process, powder primarily until you find the sweet spot that your particular rifle barrel loves. When doing this you will probably find that the max load or in some cases heavier than recommended loads that are sending the bullet downrange at hyper-sonic speeds might not be the slightest bit accurate. Bullets screaming downrange are in about 99% (my estimation) percent of the time not going to be super accurate and in some cases less lethal that the speeds the bullets were designed for. You read about bullets not performing well at short distances when shot out of rifles where the muzzle velocity is way over what the bullet is designed for. Comments like, the bullet went straight through without expanding or the bullet blew apart are common complaints here.

Bullet manufacturers design bullets on a given base of design information for the given caliber and intent. A bullet designed for hunting thin skinned game leaving the muzzle at 3000 feet per second or less out of a 1/10 twist barrel will not do well if shoved out of a barrel with a 1/8 twist at 3500+ feet per second. The forces acting on the bullet are way beyond it's design limitations. The increased spinning caused by the increased muzzle velocity and centrifugal force cause two things. Increased heat as the bullet moves through the air and increased centrifugal force that can tear the bullet apart in mid flight, or if hitting an animal cause the bullet to literally blow up upon impact and maybe not penetrate far enough to be lethal.

I was on a range practicing for an upcoming 600 yard prone match one beautiful spring day many years ago. My M-14 was shooting well and the bullets were going where the rifle was aiming when the round went off. In other words if it went off a bit high and to the right, that is where the bullet hit on the target. Under no circumstances was that bullet ever going to hit the X ring if the rifle was aiming at the 9 ring when it went off.

Anyway on the firing point next to me was a guy shooting a .243 that he had been working up some high speed loads. He had a chrono set up and the 70 gr bullets were leaving the barrel at a breathtaking 4350 fps. There was a problem however, most of the bullets were not hitting the target set up at 100 yards. After awhile his frustration factor and my curiosity got the better of both of us. I took my spotting scope and set it up to watch the flight path of the bullet on it's travels from muzzle to target, similar to what we did in the Army when shooting team matches with a coach. As I watched him shoot I noted that while some of the bullets hit the target, that's what they did, hit the target, not necessarily where they were supposed to be. I also noted that during the flight of the bullets that apparently completely missed the target that there was a puff of smoke downrange varying in distance from about 25 yards to 80 yards as he fired. The puff of smoke was determined to come from the 75 gr bullet that was designed for varmint hunting flying apart in mid flight never to reach the target.

As it turned out the rifle in question had a 1/9 barrel twist which was designed to stabilize a heavier bullet at a much slower velocity. Increasing the velocity as well as the fast twist rate exceed the bullets design, which with the added temperature and spin rate caused the bullet to fail. One of the solutions to this would have been to shoot a Monolithic bullet which at the time were not available at the time.

Now I know that I have digressed somewhat but if you are looking for a good hunting rifle my suggestion is simply pick out a quality rifle in a caliber you will be comfortable shooting and appropriate for what game you intend to hunt. Once you have done this try factory ammo that performs well in your particular rifle and use that as your base for doing any handloading trying to duplicate or improve on it's accuracy. If shooting multiple different weights you will have to do this with each different weight (example .30 caliber, 150 gr, 165 gr and 180 gr) Don't be surprised if the rifle doesn't like the ammo from the same manufacturer from one weight to another or if hand loading one bullet or powder combination of another.

So cutting out all of the confusion, unless you are not willing to spend some money on ammo or reloading components and are not willing to spend time on the range getting familiar and fine tuning your rifle it is simply a crap shoot.

Good Luck and Good Shooting. :)
 
Last edited:
I will give up some BC for best terminal performance so I am a Barnes LRX devotee. I cannot tolerate a bullet that loses weight and mass upon or shortly after entry and this eliminates the Hammer and the unbonded cup and core bullets like Berger and the older, pre accubond Ballistic Tips. I swore off of Sierra's for anything larger than Coyotes in the 1980's.
That's the beauty of having plenty of options for end-users personal preference and intended purpose.
 
That's the other problem, I'd like a bullet that works well at all distances. I'd say most of my shots on game are under 200 but I certainly don't want to be limited to short distance. If that was the case I'd just stick with my ol Balistic tips.
So let's say you extend out to 400-500 yards. Depending on the cartridge, game, and BT you could still reliable hunt out to that distance with BT's. Especailly if you use your 300 WM. I'd use a ballistics app or calculator like JBM. Litz even lists his BC on some of the bullets. That should help you make a decision that suits YOU.
 
So let's say you extend out to 400-500 yards. Depending on the cartridge, game, and BT you could still reliable hunt out to that distance with BT's. Especailly if you use your 300 WM. I'd use a ballistics app or calculator like JBM. Litz even lists his BC on some of the bullets. That should help you make a decision that suits YOU.
Yep. This Mule deer doe I took at 450yds with 150gr BT in my 270win. For CXP2 class game they do a good job.
 

Attachments

  • 3FF23A27-297D-43BF-AD6C-CD6A7D42125F.jpeg
    3FF23A27-297D-43BF-AD6C-CD6A7D42125F.jpeg
    428.7 KB · Views: 26
I talked to hammer bullets about shooting longrange because I was considering trying them. After we talked and discussed certain things I was led onto sticking with what I had due to yardage being shot and was informed that the hammer has its limitations and was not very suitable for what we were doing.
This would be relative to the cartridge, barrel twist, and desired range for hunting.
 
Well......Last night I came across a 30 something long page thread on here about the Berger 215 hybrid 30 cal bullet. It's quite impressive. Out of a crap ton of documented kills not one single failure. And the ranges were from 50 yards to 1000+. The more reading on the bergers I do it seems the failures I read about are from 2 things...1, bullets that berger classify as hunting that has a thinner jacket and they explode on impact at high velocity, or 2, bullets that have a plugged hollow point or deformed/ smashed closed hollow point. I have not found someone post about a failure with berger target bullets, which have a thicker jacket, and that also make sure the hollow point is not plugged or deformed.

Has me thinking.....
Killed a lot of critters with Bergers, just couldn't find them! That's when I switched to Hammers.
 
I'm sure at the rate I'm learning and unlearning things I'll one day end up surrendering my overbore magnums and high bc lawn darts and hypervelocity monos and rediscover that for most of what I do a medium bore with a big thumping round nose in the 2200-2800 fps range with lots of exposed lead just straight cannot be improved upon as far as terminal ballistics and DRT kills to no matter what a ballistics table "knows". Oh wait…it sounds like maybe I'm discovering it already…:🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Dads 30-30, my 8mm mauser, and my .358 Norma (yes a mag but not overbore….and as Nate Foster says, the .358 Norma with old fashioned "blunt" projectiles has a certain intangible X factor…those who use it fall in love with it) all seem to kill very cleanly despite not being fast or high bc.
Used to hunt with a Browning 1885 Win. In 405 , 300 grain bullet at 2450 FPS. Recoil was substantial. Old age sent me to a 7-08 and A CM. But it was a deer thumper. 😁
 
When the demand for a bullet, regardless of brand, is high, it will not last on the shelves. Each day that a bullet stays on the shelves, regardless of brand, is a profit loss for the manufacturer or distributor. I order some of my bullets from a small business company (a one-person shop), and he builds the bullets as just-in-time orders. The last order of 250 counts I placed took about a week. He does not keep them on the shelves and thus maximizes his profit potential (activity-based costing).
 
Last edited:

Recent Posts

Top