Is an ELD-M basically just a tipped berger?

[Chas1]

If you lost that elk it was due to poor bullet placement, not the construction of the bullet.

A lot of game has been taken with 300gr Sierra HPBT....shot placement is key.

 

[TBell]

When comparing Berger target bullets to edlm target bullets the OPs assumptions have been correct from my experience. I don't use either of these for hunting but have seen them used numerous times in 7mm. The 180 edlms have been very consistent in there performance on game where the Berger hybrid targets have been less consistent. The Berger's failed to open and tumbled on a few animals. The edlm have been have performed consistently and all opened and showed fine results.

Edlx have shown to be a good hunting bullet but they definitely harder to get to shoot than the edlms or Berger's. If your gun likes them they are great but it seems to be about 50/50 for the guns I've tried them in.

My advice instead of messing with either of the targets bullets get the Berger elite hunters. Target bullet Accuracy and long range performance and they are consistent and killers on the 20ish animals I've used them on. Only reason I use a few different bullet is cuz I can't find enough elites now a days.

I've used the Amax originally and now ELD-M's for hunting white tail. Now they are 30 cal 208 grain but never had any of them take 2 steps, 200 to 400 yards, neck shots on Turkey dropped in their tracks, in side 200 yards.

I've used 147 ELD-M in my 6.5 CM, shoulder shots, 20 yards of travel full penetration, high neck dropped in their tracks.

Feathers missing 4" below Turkey head was impact location. Only shot I had setting back side of low cedar, west Texas.

 

[skookum]

At the end of the day, elk aren't bullet proof. There's nothing magic about their scapula and I have a hard time believing any scapula on north American game will stop a 225 grain bullet from causing enough trauma to internal organs to kill them.
For every guy complaining about a bullet on the internet there are 100 more using them without a second thought. Pick something your gun likes that is available and commence firing.

For what it's worth there is a whole, giant forumn on how well the 77gr TMK works on game as well.

 

[richhymas]

Been researching these bullets a fair amount. I've already killed a decent amount with bergers, but the ELD-M's have peaked my interest lately also. It seems like their construction is very similar, except for the tip on the ELD-M. I think the tip on the ELD-M may make expansion just a hair quicker at closer ranges, but aid in the expansion, and more importantly, consistent expansion, at longer ranges.

I've been looking specifically at the 225 ELD-M as an option for my 300 NMI. They are readily available and have a higher BC than the 230 Hybrid Bergers.

Curious if this makes sense to anyone haha? Or if anyone has used both for a comparison? Or even specifically, used the 225 ELD-M as of late for killing deer & elk.

I will weigh in on elk. I have killed several game with both. I would not hunt elk sized game with the 225 ELD-M. This past fall I hit an elk in the shoulder. I hit it hard and we trailed it in the snow for well over a mile. The animal bedded 5-6 times over that mile and we found 3 chunks of shoulder bone bigger than a quarter but intimately the blood dried up and the animal started going up hill where there was no snow and we never recovered it. 200 yard impact distance out of a 300 PRC. My son shot a cow broadside in the crease and she went 20 yards, but there was no exit. I also shot a bull im the back of the head/base of neck. DRT but no exit.

Now for my Berger experience: I shot a moose with a 215 Berger. DRT at 100 yards. No exit. Huge 7' Black bear in the kidney area from 300 yards- Dead in less than 100 yards with caliber sized exit. Mule deer buck at 600 yards- went through both humerus and the heart with golf ball sized exit. DRT. The only bad experience was a cow elk at 600. Hit high of the spine. She went down like she was spined but got back up and ran away when we approached. Minimal blood even in the snow and she went miles and miles up hill. That was clearly operator error/poor point of impact. All of these were 215 bergers out of a 300 win mag. Several more unremarkable kills with the 215 Berger.

In short, I would still be careful with the bergers at close range. Try to not hit heavy bone or steep impact angles on heavy game, but out past 500 yards you will get controlled expansion with a devistating wound channel and good chance of exit. But with the ELD-M they are way to soft for anything bigger or tougher than a mule deer. I will no longer hunt with them.

If you think the majority of your shots will be inside 500 yards, I am a big fan of the Scirocco II. Excellent terminal performance and deep penetration but poor ballistic coefficient.

 

[spladi]

Been researching these bullets a fair amount. I've already killed a decent amount with bergers, but the ELD-M's have peaked my interest lately also. It seems like their construction is very similar, except for the tip on the ELD-M. I think the tip on the ELD-M may make expansion just a hair quicker at closer ranges, but aid in the expansion, and more importantly, consistent expansion, at longer ranges.

I've been looking specifically at the 225 ELD-M as an option for my 300 NMI. They are readily available and have a higher BC than the 230 Hybrid Bergers.

Curious if this makes sense to anyone haha? Or if anyone has used both for a comparison? Or even specifically, used the 225 ELD-M as of late for killing deer & elk.

You can use either for paper but stick to the one who's purpose is to hunt with, not the same.

 

[DJ Fergus]

Bergers hunting bullets have thinner jackets than their target bullets. On the flip side, The ELDm has a thinner Jacket than their hunting bullet: ELDx. I hunt deer with both the ELDm and bergers. No complaints with either. Larger game would need more consideration of bullet choice.

 

[Coues110]

That's like the drunk who hasn't had a DWI accident yet.

If you shoot enough animals with target bullets it's only a matter of when, not if it's going to happen.

You can also kill an animal with a controlled expansion bullet and not find it after a dead run.

 

[Libbylogger]

If you lost that elk it was due to poor bullet placement, not the construction of the bullet.

I've only lost one elk. It was a perfect double lung shot. Bullet penciled through because I hit no bone I'm guessing. It was a .284 160 grain accubond fired from a 7mm WSM at approximately 3150fps. Elk was standing broadside at 125 yards. I found the elk the next day spoiled. No blood trail and small holes on both entrance and exit. I still tagged the elk hoping I could salvage some meat, but had no luck. There are no perfect bullets, but Hammers are very close IMO!!

 

[Dragoon300]

It's a target bullet, I would not shoot it at game. The ELD-X however is a very good hunting bullet.

Been researching these bullets a fair amount. I've already killed a decent amount with bergers, but the ELD-M's have peaked my interest lately also. It seems like their construction is very similar, except for the tip on the ELD-M. I think the tip on the ELD-M may make expansion just a hair quicker at closer ranges, but aid in the expansion, and more importantly, consistent expansion, at longer ranges.

I've been looking specifically at the 225 ELD-M as an option for my 300 NMI. They are readily available and have a higher BC than the 230 Hybrid Bergers.

Curious if this makes sense to anyone haha? Or if anyone has used both for a comparison? Or even specifically, used the 225 ELD-M as of late for killing deer & elk.

I too thought the ELDM's or A-Tip's with their high BC's would be good bullet alternatives to Berger, however I usually run larger capacity cartridge's with higher velocity loads. This poses a problem for the ELDM and A-Tip bullets in their ability to handle rotational RPM. I have read too many accounts of the ELDM's and A-Tip's vaporizing 30 to 100 yards out of the muzzle. In particular the 6.5 147 grain ELDM and 153 grain A-Tip projectiles in hand loads, and even factory 6.5 PRC ammo running (275,000 rpm)! 290,000 to 300,00 rpm seems to be considered the practical limit for jacketed bullets. Erick Steckler of Berger posted quite a lengthy write up on this topic in 2007 on LRH. The higher the velocity, faster the twist, the squarer the rifling, the more friction, the more likely these bullets will come apart.

I have Bartlein 5R gains twist barrels, to reduce friction and mitigate this problem.
I have never heard of, or have experienced any Berger bullets blowingup on the way to the target.

I will not consider using the ELDM, or A-Tip Hornady projectiles in anything at higher velocities.

 

[Libbylogger]

If you lost that elk it was due to poor bullet placement, not the construction of the bullet.

Sorry but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. Maybe I had a bad bullet or something, I'm not sure. I lost a bull elk shot at 125 yards with a 7mm WSM shooting a 160 grain accubond at around 3150fps. It was a perfect double lung shot. The bullet penciled through hitting no bone. I couldn't barely fit my pinky in either hole. I did find the elk the next day spoiled. Of course I did an autopsy to find out what happened. I don't really have an explanation other than the bullet failed to expand. Don't get me wrong I like accubonds and shoot them in other guns still. Maybe my experience is the exemption to the rule, not sure. There is no perfect hunting bullet but Hammers are very close!

 

[7.62 Gunner]

Yardages and impact velocity if you have it please? Dont spend a lot of extra time on it.

800 yards, impact velocity approx 2000 fps

Now we are throwing out late night internet insults-- nice work, must be past your bedtime.

I understand it just fine-- and now you are walking that statement back because you literally have no idea where that gentleman shot that animal do you?? You have no actual idea where he put it or if it did it's job.

You are stuck with your head up your fourth point of contact and unwilling to consider that you might be the very person you described that can only believe what you think is best.

I was going to respond to a certain member on this thread but after reading his 20th post I've decided it's not worth it.
Some people are always right and that's that.

I hit one very well and it was a long time before recovery. Shot behind the shoulder didn't expand well but exited. If that had been an Amax, that animal wouldn't have went anywhere if hit in the exact same spot. I'm not recommending to anyone that a target/match bullet should be your choice but as many animals as I've killed with them and not one lost (99% DRT), I will always use them on many of my hunts depending on the animal.

Yes this is what I'm sure happened to the bull I lost with the accubond.
I hit him right behind the shoulder center lung, he went down then got up and ran away.
It was last light so I went after him the next day, I lost his trail 2 miles later after climbing 1500'.
The shot was verified by two spotters, it was without a doubt a lethal hit with any target bullet.
I actually spoke with a guy from Gunwerks about it and they've seen the exact thing happen with bulls lunged by accubonds.
His exact quote was that they don't expand enough at long range to create a good wound channel.

 

[OldElkHunter1961]

I have to much respect for the grand beasts we pursue to roll the dice on their protracted misery with a target bullet that was never designed to deliver lethal terminal ballistics. This isn't a petty matter of ego. This is a matter of ethics.

 

[born2hunt4ever]

I have had great luck with the 147 eld-m in a custom 6.5-284 running 2950 fps. I have shot 2 antelope, 4 deer, and 2 elk with them and then witnessed my gun be used for another antelope and 2 deer. All were great results. The original post asked about if they will kill elk. Yes they do! I shot a cow elk at 620 yards. Couldn't get any closer and she was feeding broadside no idea I was there. I dialed, settled in and broke the trigger. Bullet struck perfect behind the shoulder. She hunched up and started to wobble when I sent the second one that impacted 3" from the first. The second shot wasn't needed but I'm a firm believer if they are still standing then I'm shooting. The other elk was a spike bull at 450 and first shot went through the shoulder. Second dropped him in his tracks with a double lung shot. Furthest deer killed was 720 yards. All animal range kills from 130-720. I hope this helps!

 

[Greybeard]

Been researching these bullets a fair amount. I've already killed a decent amount with bergers, but the ELD-M's have peaked my interest lately also. It seems like their construction is very similar, except for the tip on the ELD-M. I think the tip on the ELD-M may make expansion just a hair quicker at closer ranges, but aid in the expansion, and more importantly, consistent expansion, at longer ranges.

I've been looking specifically at the 225 ELD-M as an option for my 300 NMI. They are readily available and have a higher BC than the 230 Hybrid Bergers.

Curious if this makes sense to anyone haha? Or if anyone has used both for a comparison? Or even specifically, used the 225 ELD-M as of late for killing deer & elk.

Been researching these bullets a fair amount. I've already killed a decent amount with bergers, but the ELD-M's have peaked my interest lately also. It seems like their construction is very similar, except for the tip on the ELD-M. I think the tip on the ELD-M may make expansion just a hair quicker at closer ranges, but aid in the expansion, and more importantly, consistent expansion, at longer ranges.

I've been looking specifically at the 225 ELD-M as an option for my 300 NMI. They are readily available and have a higher BC than the 230 Hybrid Bergers.

Curious if this makes sense to anyone haha? Or if anyone has used both for a comparison? Or even specifically, used the 225 ELD-M as of late for killing deer & elk.

ELD-M 225 grain is an absolute joke for big bull elk. No penetration whatsoever.