Is an ELD-M basically just a tipped berger?

[Huntnful]

The question is why would you choose to shoot a target bullet knowing there's a much higher probability that it will either blow up shallow horribly wounding an animal or pencil through when we have better options available.

If we were starving and hunting for food and had no other choice it would be a completely different equation.

I feel like we owe the game we seek the quickest and most humane death we can give them.

Honestly, they are just better bullets in your opinion. Not making a personal attack or anything. But, I've never seen an animal die slower than one hit with an accubond. And I've never seen one die faster, than one hit with a target bullet. I may decide not to even shoot a target bullet, but I understand their effectiveness when used in the right circumstances. They are devastating when placed in the vitals.

At long range, target bullets provide the quickest most humane death in my experience.
The one elk I lost was shot with an accubond

Accubonds are far from impressive at any medium velocity. My buddy shot a caribou at 300 yards and it took one step and kept feeding. He shot it again. It jumped forward, and then took over a minute to die. With 2 perfect shots. So a big elk with one bullet in him, running through heavy timber or something, could be hard to follow.

 

[duckhunter175]

I've killed and watched killed dozens of critters from blackbuck, coues deer, ky and tx whitetail, axis deer, hogs, and even a red stag with various Amax and ELDM bullets. Never, ever seen an Amax or ELDM pencil through an animal. I've read the stories on here from elk hunters running the 225ELDM and 285ELDM and having splashy, shallow expansion on elk but my two elk were archery and muzzy.

My experience has been with 75gr .224 ELDM, 140gr 6.5 Amax, 140gr 6.5 ELDM, 162gr 7mm ELDM, 168gr .308 Amax and 178gr .308ELDM--- all running 2700-3000fps MV and from 65-350 yards. I've seen very consistent results with great expansion, nothing explosive but they do seem to lose a good bit of weight during expansion especially if you run one through a shoulder blade or rib. However- they always do a great job wrecking vitals and putting animals down quickly.

I would be hesitant to run an ELDM or Amax on elk or other large game. The Red Stag was a target of opportunity and I only had a .308win/168amax with me-- one shot and he barely flinched, slowly turned around to run, stopped, wobbled and tipped over. Not an ideal combo, but it slipped through the ribs and took out the lungs completely.

My sample size for other bullets is smaller-- close to a dozen animals with Barnes LRX 145gr 7mm and 250gr .338, some deer with 6mm bergers, an aoudad and large hog with a 131 blackjack (worked great) and tried some 75gr BTHP that performed terribly IMO.

Based off my experiences I'll continue to use Hornady bullets and I've settled on a 270ELDX for my 338RUM for large, thick skinned game and a 7saum with 162ELDM for deer and below.

 

[WildRose]

Honestly, they are just better bullets in your opinion. Not making a personal attack or anything. But, I've never seen an animal die slower than one hit with an accubond. And I've never seen one die faster, than one hit with a target bullet. I may decide not to even shoot a target bullet, but I understand their effectiveness when used in the right circumstances. They are devastating when placed in the vitals.

Accubonds are far from impressive at any medium velocity. My buddy shot a caribou at 300 yards and it took one step and kept feeding. He shot it again. It jumped forward, and then took over a minute to die. With 2 perfect shots. So a big elk with one bullet in him, running through heavy timber or something, could be hard to follow.

No it's not an opinion, it's simply a fact, they are purposely designed to perform better on game than the ELD-M.

Put an Accubond where it belongs and where it is designed to do the most good and you have a dead animal every time.

The companies designing these bullets spend a whole lot of time, money, and resources into giving us the best purpose built bullets they can produce in their price points.

It is up to us as hunters and shooters however to understand the bullets we shoot and what they are designed to do then use them for that intended purpose.

If you're making high lung shots through the ribs with a bonded, controlled expansion bullet you're not using it as intended and it's not going to give you optimal performance.

The same holds true for a thin jacketed frangible bullet or a heavy jacketed non expanding match bullet.

Each are designed to give optimal performance in a narrow range of parameters. That's why there is no single bullet that will perform optimally in every situation.

 

[Huntnful]

I've killed and watched killed dozens of critters from blackbuck, coues deer, ky and tx whitetail, axis deer, hogs, and even a red stag with various Amax and ELDM bullets. Never, ever seen an Amax or ELDM pencil through an animal. I've read the stories on here from elk hunters running the 225ELDM and 285ELDM and having splashy, shallow expansion on elk but my two elk were archery and muzzy.

My experience has been with 75gr .224 ELDM, 140gr 6.5 Amax, 140gr 6.5 ELDM, 162gr 7mm ELDM, 168gr .308 Amax and 178gr .308ELDM--- all running 2700-3000fps MV and from 65-350 yards. I've seen very consistent results with great expansion, nothing explosive but they do seem to lose a good bit of weight during expansion especially if you run one through a shoulder blade or rib. However- they always do a great job wrecking vitals and putting animals down quickly.

I would be hesitant to run an ELDM or Amax on elk or other large game. The Red Stag was a target of opportunity and I only had a .308win/168amax with me-- one shot and he barely flinched, slowly turned around to run, stopped, wobbled and tipped over. Not an ideal combo, but it slipped through the ribs and took out the lungs completely.

My sample size for other bullets is smaller-- close to a dozen animals with Barnes LRX 145gr 7mm and 250gr .338, some deer with 6mm bergers, an aoudad and large hog with a 131 blackjack (worked great) and tried some 75gr BTHP that performed terribly IMO.

Based off my experiences I'll continue to use Hornady bullets and I've settled on a 270ELDX for my 338RUM for large, thick skinned game and a 7saum with 162ELDM for deer and below.

Thank you for the info! That's a lot of data for sure!

 

[biff's reloading]

the M (A-max 2.0) is my favorite bullet for woodchucks in every rifle I hunt them with. They shoot great in all of them. I've taken 3 whitetail with 168amax at 3100fps and all were dead at the shot. Same load cuts woodchucks in half out to 400 yards and drt as far as I can manage to hit them (or even just the dirt beneath them!)

I wouldn't choose them for deer intentionally unless you are shooting a smaller case and need the easy expansion. 208's from a 308 win work fantastic at 2400fps, but at over 3000fps from my rum, they are essentially a hand grenade. Massive damage. Thankfully I hit well back in the lungs and didn't lose much meat. Didnt do it again. 212eldx hold up better and fly as well.

 

[Huntnful]

the M (A-max 2.0) is my favorite bullet for woodchucks in every rifle I hunt them with. They shoot great in all of them. I've taken 3 whitetail with 168amax at 3100fps and all were dead at the shot. Same load cuts woodchucks in half out to 400 yards and drt as far as I can manage to hit them (or even just the dirt beneath them!)

I wouldn't choose them for deer intentionally unless you are shooting a smaller case and need the easy expansion. 208's from a 308 win work fantastic at 2400fps, but at over 3000fps from my rum, they are essentially a hand grenade. Massive damage. Thankfully I hit well back in the lungs and didn't lose much meat. Didnt do it again. 212eldx hold up better and fly as well.

Thank you for this response! I would be pushing them around 3100fps. Seems a bit too fast from the responses I've gotten.

 

[B-LOT Banga]

I've played with the 225 Eld in my 300 wsm and 300 prc. Both did very well on wild cattle here in Hawaii most bulls around 1200 lbs or more. Out of 7 bulls (2-wsm, 5-prc) only the wsm had a pass through the size of a golf ball. The rest stayed in with major hemorrhage. Shots ranged from 70 yds out to 420 yds.

Then I decided to play with my 300 rum and loaded some 225 eldm but couldn't get better than 1.5" groups so I tried the 245 eol next. I got 2 pass through shots side by side at 290 yds with one bull dropping and the other running over 100 yds before bedding and dying. Having mixed feelings I tried the Berger 215 and got a instant kill at 366 yds. I also tried the 220 eldx and only got to shoot sheep to date with softball size exit holes.

It's my guess that being a 30 cal and heavy they tend to bully it's way through no matter the construction. Shoot what's the most accurate for you at your intended range.

 

[Calvin45]

Been researching these bullets a fair amount. I've already killed a decent amount with bergers, but the ELD-M's have peaked my interest lately also. It seems like their construction is very similar, except for the tip on the ELD-M. I think the tip on the ELD-M may make expansion just a hair quicker at closer ranges, but aid in the expansion, and more importantly, consistent expansion, at longer ranges.

I've been looking specifically at the 225 ELD-M as an option for my 300 NMI. They are readily available and have a higher BC than the 230 Hybrid Bergers.

Curious if this makes sense to anyone haha? Or if anyone has used both for a comparison? Or even specifically, used the 225 ELD-M as of late for killing deer & elk.

Yeah you're not too far off in that assessment. It's a thin jacketed bullet like a Berger with a tip. I've used the 225 eld m in my boring old .300 win mag. Killed a deer just fine, no surprises there haha. Stupid accurate.

 

[Calvin45]

If you lost that elk it was due to poor bullet placement, not the construction of the bullet.

But what if the man hasn't lost any with target bullets like he said. Is it really that likely that he's only a bad shot with hunting bullets and not target ones haha? This isn't really the best forum to be stating why target bullets aren't for hunting…first hand experience has led a ton of us to appreciate both.

Nothing more inhumane than a "premium" hunting bullet designed to retain all its weight stabbing an ice pick wound in thin skinned game at long range/low velocity.

 

[Raudy707]

I've killed probably 100 to 120 big game animals with Nosler Accubonds. They die plenty fast when you hit em in the vitals. 12 to 700 yds. Multiple calibers, short action to long action. Deer, bear, hogs, elk. Dead. No suffering or delay. I've killed another 20 or 30 with eld-m and Berger bullets. I like them for ranges beyond 400 yds. Not too fond of how they react on bone especially under 200 yds. Make one hell of a mess. But they do fly straight, cut the wind and make a guy not have to be so perfect on his wind calls at 600 to 800 yds. My system is I carry two types of bullets with me. A controlled expansion or mono for close range, which are in my rifle at all times. When, and if I need a vld style bullet for 400+ yds I grab those from my pack while I'm setting up. This system works great for me. I just spend some extra range time finding a controlled expansion or mono that has nearly the exact same point of impact preferably an inch high or low at 100 and write it down on my dope card. I never know what bullet is going to be the one. Could be a Hammer, Scirocco, Accubond or Barnes LRX but there's always one that shoots really close to a ABLR, Berger or Eld-m. Just takes more trigger time and a guy can always use more of that in his life. Win-win.

 

[WildRose]

But what if the man hasn't lost any with target bullets like he said. Is it really that likely that he's only a bad shot with hunting bullets and not target ones haha? This isn't really the best forum to be stating why target bullets aren't for hunting…first hand experience has led a ton of us to appreciate both.

Nothing more inhumane than a "premium" hunting bullet designed to retain all its weight stabbing an ice pick wound in thin skinned game at long range/low velocity.

That's like the drunk who hasn't had a DWI accident yet.

If you shoot enough animals with target bullets it's only a matter of when, not if it's going to happen.

 

[WildRose]

Nothing more inhumane than a "premium" hunting bullet designed to retain all its weight stabbing an ice pick wound in thin skinned game at long range/low velocity.

If you put it in the right spot like through the heart or spine that's not going to be a problem.

 

[Reelamin]

At long range, target bullets provide the quickest most humane death in my experience.
The one elk I lost was shot with an accubond

Yardages and impact velocity if you have it please? Dont spend a lot of extra time on it.

 

[Calvin45]

If you put it in the right spot like through the heart or spine that's not going to be a problem.

If you can guarantee a heart or spine hit everytime why not just save money and use cheap FMJ ammo? At long range softer projectiles, preferably very heavy for caliber frangible types (not at all the same thing as hunting with varmint bullets!) give you way more wiggle room and emphatic killing power than most hunting bullets. Or at least that's what hundreds of hunters, many on this forum, have claimed to have witnessed.

It's not at all like a drunk waiting to get a dui. The person you blamed for their accubond's inferior long range performance had a bad had their "dui" and learned from it sounds like. This is their experience based conclusion.