greatwhitehntr
Well-Known Member
Very true and The worst part is I know better
How do the factories load "universal" high performance cartridges??
- Thread starter Vettepilot
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Velvet
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2017
- Messages
- 210
Yes, you are looking for a load whose POI is always the same, even if it varies by X amount of powder, that is, with more/less pressure-speed.
That allows this method. From my experience it appears that with an X charge that works well on a 308win rifle for example, it also works well on a similar rifle. Just by minimally adjusting CBTO, the load allows very similar results. I am not saying that one load is ideal for ALL brands and models of rifles, I am saying that it must be a method that ammo manufacturers use, so that it works well in all.
Do you know the OCW method?
Best regards
V
Define OWC
I work in aviation so acronym soup I am use to but have never seen this one. I have read Lee's theory on volume loads vs. weighing loads (in the Lee Manual; not a fan personally). As well as finding the correct node for your barrel based on varying powder charges. The one I personally use is the Berger seating depth method https://bergerbullets.com/how-do-you-load-and-tune-a-vld-bullet/followed by the powder node method.
supersubes
Member
Dan Newberry's OCW Load Development System
Dan Newberry OCW or Optimal Charge Weight Load Development method or system for handloading, reloading, bullets, brass, powder, primers, accurate handloads.
optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com
Velvet
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2017
- Messages
- 210
Warbird2006
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2012
- Messages
- 412
No, that info is for reloaders. Nosler does not reveal its factory loads and recipes.
D
Deleted member 115374
Guest
That is a great question. I bought a 240 Wby a few years back from a freind of mine. As soon as I got it I called Wby customer service to try and get some insight from them re: bullet jump, seating depth and powder choices to start the process. I was not given any information and was told that if I wanted the rifle to shoot like it was intended, then I need to shoot Wby factory ammo. My next question to the rep. was- is Wby going to produce any of the short mags like 300 wsm or 270wsm ? His response was why would Wby produce those calibers when they already produce the finest, most accurate rifles in the world. I thanked him for his time and decided I would not own another Wby rifle. I am now doing my research to turn that rifle into a 6.5/284. I am new to the rifle build community so it is a long process. I understand that the "formula" manufacturers use for their loads is secret- I get it- but I also think it would benefit gun/ammo manufacturers to be a little more cooperative with the reloading community. Again Great Question!
Vettepilot
Well-Known Member
Well, I was somewhat afraid this would happen. Even though I tried to specify that my question related to velocity and pressure, some of you jumped into the accuracy side of the equation.
I don't think the accuracy angle is too tough to figure. If they use a high quality and consistent bullet, figure out the most common jump it likes, and load it to that jump on a SAAMI chamber drawing, it ought to shoot "minute of deer" in most guns, at the very least.
And one might say, "well, they just load up to SAAMI max pressure, less a small fudge factor, and there you have "magic factory ammo" as regards velocity.
But we are warned that "every single gun is different; even two consecutive guns off the assembly line", AND the many times quoted: "This load was safe in THIS gun only; yours will be different." "Start 10% low and work up."
Now of course we will work our loads up, both for safety, and to fine tune a load for best performance in our particular gun. But I still wonder how the factories can produce ammo that nudges the upper limit in pressure, yet is safe in all the different, individual, guns out there.
Vettepilot
I don't think the accuracy angle is too tough to figure. If they use a high quality and consistent bullet, figure out the most common jump it likes, and load it to that jump on a SAAMI chamber drawing, it ought to shoot "minute of deer" in most guns, at the very least.
And one might say, "well, they just load up to SAAMI max pressure, less a small fudge factor, and there you have "magic factory ammo" as regards velocity.
But we are warned that "every single gun is different; even two consecutive guns off the assembly line", AND the many times quoted: "This load was safe in THIS gun only; yours will be different." "Start 10% low and work up."
Now of course we will work our loads up, both for safety, and to fine tune a load for best performance in our particular gun. But I still wonder how the factories can produce ammo that nudges the upper limit in pressure, yet is safe in all the different, individual, guns out there.
Vettepilot
Did you call/ email and ask? Just curious what the response was.
D
Deleted member 115374
Guest
Vettepilot, When you said that they have powders that we don't have access to, do you think it is powders they manufacture in house, or do you think it is a blend of powders that may be available to reloaders but are blended to get the desirable results ? Just wondering what your thoughts are because I have no clue.
esshup
Well-Known Member
How? Lots of testing and monitoring the results, and keeping track of the results. BUT, their definition of "high performance" is way different than mine....... The only reasonable performing ammo factory ammo that I've shot is Federal Gold Medal Match .308 ammo out of my FN SPR, and it doesn't meet my definition of "high performance" at 1,000 yds because it isn't quite going fast enough for 780' elevation. Barrel was warm, starting to lose light so the group was hurried, 1/2 moa wide, 1 moa vertical. The horizontal group size was at the outer limits of what I'd call "high performance" and the vertical group size was too big. It shoots much better with handloads and 175g SMK's.
None of my other rifles get fed factory ammo except rimfires.
None of my other rifles get fed factory ammo except rimfires.
Stammster
Well-Known Member
Regarding Hornady Superformance, it is pretty fast in 270 win 130 gr and really fast in 30-06 165gr - compared to what I can hand load with standard (non-magic) powders. But it doesn't shoot worth a darn. 2 MOA at best.
It's not the bullet, as the SSTs shoot < .75 MOA in the same guns with different powders and charge weights. Same with seating depth. I seat the at the canalure - same as factory.
As I said previously, flat primers in all guns. Noticeable bolt lift in my bolt guns. In my gas guns, the rims get torn up also. All at temp < 80DegF. I'd be scared to see what would happen here in Texas in the summer.
Don't get hung up on velocity. Accuracy first, and then velocity. In the right cartridges with RL26, you can have both - and outrun even the fastest factory ammo without pressure signs
It's not the bullet, as the SSTs shoot < .75 MOA in the same guns with different powders and charge weights. Same with seating depth. I seat the at the canalure - same as factory.
As I said previously, flat primers in all guns. Noticeable bolt lift in my bolt guns. In my gas guns, the rims get torn up also. All at temp < 80DegF. I'd be scared to see what would happen here in Texas in the summer.
Don't get hung up on velocity. Accuracy first, and then velocity. In the right cartridges with RL26, you can have both - and outrun even the fastest factory ammo without pressure signs
Last edited:
SheepSeeker
Well-Known Member
I bought 2 boxes of Hornady Outfitter 300 Win Mag 180 GMX to shoot in my new to me Blaser.
It shot 1/2 moa to 400 yds (as far as I've tested it) and the cases came out "snickety - snick"
Unfired ammo has a rounded face primer like a Winchester. After firing, the primer is flat against the bolt face. Too hot, nope as cases fall out, head expansion is a non event and the Blaser has nowhere near the primary extraction power of a Mauser.
And the nickel cases are soooo pretty !
It shot 1/2 moa to 400 yds (as far as I've tested it) and the cases came out "snickety - snick"
Unfired ammo has a rounded face primer like a Winchester. After firing, the primer is flat against the bolt face. Too hot, nope as cases fall out, head expansion is a non event and the Blaser has nowhere near the primary extraction power of a Mauser.
And the nickel cases are soooo pretty !
