Nightforce lately?

The $ was a benefit, not the driving factor. I'm not going to be negative here, let's leave it at that.


Thank you for the information you have been able to provide, despite the abuse the Nightforce Fan-Bois seem all too willing to dish out.I understand the position you are in given your placement in the industry and the 800 pound gorilla.

Just in time delivery is a huge factor in modern business economics, and it can be a powerful tool when the suppliers are able to fulfill their promises. JIT frees up capital from inventory holding for investment else where. Maybe with that $800,000 he buys another machining center so you get your custom rifle in 8 weeks instead of 12 weeks. He also doesnt have to maintain space to store that inventory or dedicate the man hours to manage it.

By 'nearly just in time' I assume he means it has a inventory holding time measured in days rather than months or years. Ideally in JIT, the scope would come off the big brown truck of happiness and into the technicians hand the day he is ready to mount it, that's not realistic. So some holding time is nessesary.
 
well said
its no longer about a superior product its about profit

superior is subjective. My close army buddy and shooting partner, who I trust a ton, doesn't like NF. He thinks his Kahles is superior. I disagree with him. Are both scopes amazing and we are just being super nit picky? 100%. If someone gave me a kahles or a higher end luepold I wouldn't complain. If I was looking for a gunwerks and those were the options I personally would not think gunwerks is peddling me crap. That's just my opinion. I appreciate your post and viewpoint on the matter.
 
This is entertaining - had @skipdavidson praised nightforce and said all the right things - someone would've still found ways to pick it apart.


Wowza









NF user here for life !!
not so sure...the original post ws about advice to not use NF
which creates a question "why?"
then Skip jumps in and says "well...we dont anymore "
which creates a question "why"
He goes on to say they have been bought
which creates a question
for profit or preformance
I JUST WANTED A STRAIGHT ANSWER why people are advising against NF
pretty simple
 
Thank you for the information you have been able to provide, despite the abuse the Nightforce Fan-Bois seem all too willing to dish out.I understand the position you are in given your placement in the industry and the 800 pound gorilla.

Just in time delivery is a huge factor in modern business economics, and it can be a powerful tool when the suppliers are able to fulfill their promises. JIT frees up capital from inventory holding for investment else where. Maybe with that $800,000 he buys another machining center so you get your custom rifle in 8 weeks instead of 12 weeks. He also doesnt have to maintain space to store that inventory or dedicate the man hours to manage it.

By 'nearly just in time' I assume he means it has a inventory holding time measured in days rather than months or years. Ideally in JIT, the scope would come off the big brown truck of happiness and into the technicians hand the day he is ready to mount it, that's not realistic. So some holding time is nessesary.

If a company is really good with JIT, normally shipping is the reason they have a holding area for a couple of days. You're spot on with your post. Minus the fanbois part. 🤣😉
 
superior is subjective. My close army buddy and shooting partner, who I trust a ton, doesn't like NF. He thinks his Kahles is superior. I disagree with him. Are both scopes amazing and we are just being super nit picky? 100%. If someone gave me a kahles or a higher end luepold I wouldn't complain. If I was looking for a gunwerks and those were the options I personally would not think gunwerks is peddling me crap. That's just my opinion. I appreciate your post and viewpoint on the matter.
Ive watched leupold owners smack their scopes with a screw driver sighting the advice of the rep.
ie the guy said "always go past your setting then come back then smack em..straight from the rep"
that is the superior I was sighting
 
Ive watched leupold owners smack their scopes with a screw driver sighting the advice of the rep.
ie the guy said "always go past your setting then come back then smack em..straight from the rep"
that is the superior I was sighting

yeah I have several close buddies who do that. I take them to the range and they still do it even with modern, higher end luepolds. Old habits die hard.
 
I am buying a 15-55 this weekend for a 6ppc
when I saw the post, it concerned me and I wanted to know WHY someone would advise against a NF
nothing more
 
.

We're big on relationships. Many folks judge a rifle on cost and group size. We feel there are many aspects that are just, if not more, important. In optics, its the same, performance is important, but not everything.
[/QUOTE]

Genuinely appreciate your perspective as a major player in the industry. HOWEVER, with the price point of yours and other leading manufacturers, FOR ME, performance is everything! When spending north of $2k just for components, I don't need anymore friends, I need a reliable, proven product that works and a manufacturer that will stand behind it.

I've been very fortunate to be both a user and later in a position to be the final say for purchasing for a large LE agency special operations group. Done the Shot Show thing numerous times and talked with all the major brands. Its true there are a lot of good companies out there who will ship overnight on a moments notice to get you something you need and offer nice lunches when they are in town, but at the end of the day, (again, for me)consistent quality trumps all these things. We have been using NF exclusively for more than 10yrs now and I probably talk less to them than any other brand we purchase because frankly there's no need. Our optics are required to ride around locked in a vault in an SUV most of their lives enduring ALOT of punishment and wild temperature swings then perform flawlessly in a moments notice.
We've tried other brands (one of them you currently use) and they have always failed in this scenario after no more than a year.
I find NF to be a pleasure to deal with in the fact if I need something I get it, if I have a question they answer it. I don't need free hats and t-shirts, just something that works every time.

I'm sure someone will eventually come along and challenge for their position in the industry but until then I cant find a good reason to look elsewhere.
 
Wow, lots of supporter talk here. As a customer spending millions on optics yearly (not thousands), I shared our decision to make a shift. I indicated it was not based only on quality, but also based on features (Leupold turret system, lighter weight, Kahles optical quality, etc), and relationship, and other vendor performance issues like delivery. I was sharing my choice as a customer. I wasn't (and never would) suggest that you have to make the same choice, or that my reasons would even matter to you! Tranquilo buddy.

By the way, sourcing some components of your product (eg, glass) is not the same as sourcing a completed assembly and performing a qc check.

And another revelation....business is about profit. Different companies choose different methods to achieve said goal. I believe faster service for my customers is one way to have a competitive advantage, and JIT delivery of products from vendor supply is a massive factor in making our customers happy. It's every bit as important as feature and price.

We were the largest Nightforce dealer in the world for the NXS 5.5-22 and ATACR 5-25 at different points in our 10-year relationship. We consistently placed near the top overall dealer volume with just a handful of SKUs. I can say with statistical certainty that our issue rate with Leupold is at comparable levels. And in a mark 5 we get non-raising locking turrets, tons of elevation, and less weight.

In light rifle space, think about the dollars that are spent to run Carbon Fiber stocks or Titanium actions. Saving 6-10 ounces on a scope that otherwise is as good as or better than a comparable product, and for the same or less cost to the end customer is a big win in my book. My cost margins are the same, so no big win for us on the $ side in the switch.

The myth of product superiority when we are discussing optics (or products in general) is a farce! Get specific. In what aspects? What is the data sample? Are suggesting the only thing that matters is performance feature? Which ones?

Our account was worth millions annually to NF. We no longer purchase products from them. Regardless of what you want to read into this data, I think it's relative to the discussion thread.
 
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