A race to the bottom

[MIROPHAN]

I have a custom gun on order. Prior to ordering it I considered buying the parts and assembling them myself. Looking at the quote from the gunsmith, I do not see how they are making money. The price is not much more than the price of the basic components. They appear to be only making money on typical mark ups for chambering the barrel and glass bedding the action.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

I guess I really would want to hear the reasoning behind that suggestion, if it goes deeper than they must feel you can't thread the barrel into the reciever........or maybe you can't possibly headspace it youself. Wonder what the charge is to do it for you?

I've seen more than one report of prefits with garbage threads, poor headspace and oversized chambers. I believe this suggestion has less to do with Defiance and more to do with the prefit you're putting on it.

 

[Rhovee]

Most gunsmiths only make money on chambering, bedding, and threading/timing muzzle breaks. It's a tough business model when your mostly making money on labor. And your labor is either being cut down by pre-fits, or the guys who are retired and do lathe work as a hobby and charge but half.

 

[sp6x6]

If everyone that had there custom taken in to a really good smith,many would find that there rifle would have likely some issues.Been many a thread on here about customs that did not hold accuracy. We all know in general they are better,but many factory rifles shoot well.Bench shooters have many a custom action reworked trying to get everything out of it.I think there will always be a spot for gunsmith,and assemblers are already out there too,AR's etc. Ive had custom as many turn into double the stated wait time,and usually understand.They also make mistakes too,or defective parts etc.The true smith works through these problems better than a assembler,has more equipment and skills to fix.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

Another possibility might be they don't want to get a bad reputation if people do a poor job of "do it youself".

OK I guess they could see it that way, but think about it, If you the owner of the action buys a pre-fit barrel and own it. You decide to install the barrel yourself something many people do by the way, and do a poor job who does that responsibility fall on? You the owner of both items and person who did the work. I don't see who that would give a bad reputation to except yourself.I actually didn't ask the question to start a pre-fit installation thread hi jack just to see if there was something I didn't understand involved, for this precaution.

I've seen more than one report of prefits with garbage threads, poor headspace and oversized chambers. I believe this suggestion has less to do with Defiance and more to do with the prefit you're putting on it.

This quote reply more answer's my question. I guess staying with Criterion, Lothar Walther, and McGowen has never caused me any problems. Knowing how to headspace a barrel has saved any problems with technique. Thanks for the responses gentleman, I thought it was some difference in doing that particular action, my bad. Dave

 

[Westernhuntr]

I've seen more than one report of prefits with garbage threads, poor headspace and oversized chambers. I believe this suggestion has less to do with Defiance and more to do with the prefit you're putting on it.

The headspace part makes no sense, with a prefit you set that yourself and have the ability to make it really minimal.

Buying a cheap barrel will result in poor accuracy whether it's a prefit or a blank.
If you stick with a quality prefit, chamber dimensions will be just as good as the most expensive shouldered barrel.
From personal experience I'd avoid McGowan, and Match Grade Machine

 

[Mike Matteson]

I have seen a lot of change over the past 58 years from when I started hand loading. I am not a long range shooter per say, but always worked on getting tight groups, and what the bullet did on impact. Then onto velocity and accuracies, because we didn't have range finders. Change to longer and heavier barrels. I haven't gotten into faster twist yet, but I can see what's going on there. Fun to watch it change.
SSS
Mike

 

[adk hunter]

and it helps to throw a fillet of fresh steelhead to him once in a while.....

...best hook of the day!

 

[L.Sherm]

Buying a cheap barrel will result in poor accuracy whether it's a prefit or a blank.
If you stick with a quality prefit, chamber dimensions will be just as good as the most expensive shouldered barrel.
From personal experience I'd avoid McGowan, and Match Grade Machine

This statement in my opinion is not necessarily true. I've got some 17 and 20 cal Green mountain barrels that shoot .5 m.o.a
all day long, good enough for sage rats so depending on your eng goal.
You can also take a Kreiger, Brux, Broughton etc. and the guy whose indicating and running the reamer in doesnt know what hes doing and you will probably have a so so shooter or worse shouldered or prefit.
I've seen some pretty crappy chamber jobs on prefits and AR barrels.
I've also seen some good ones on prefits.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

The headspace part makes no sense, with a prefit you set that yourself and have the ability to make it really minimal.

Buying a cheap barrel will result in poor accuracy whether it's a prefit or a blank.
If you stick with a quality prefit, chamber dimensions will be just as good as the most expensive shouldered barrel.
From personal experience I'd avoid McGowan, and Match Grade Machine

Defiance is talking about shouldered prefits not barrel nuts. The problem with the shouldered trend is people think they don't have to check anything and just torque it in and call it a day.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

This quote reply more answer's my question. I guess staying with Criterion, Lothar Walther, and McGowen has never caused me any problems.

Wow didn't know if you could quote from your own posts, I will amend my statement slightly we must be totally honest. McGowen sent me a match barrel with the throat so long I couldn't begin to set the bullet out far enough. The crown was also pretty rough, I did what anyone would do in this case as I'm not equipped to deal with either problem. I had my gunsmith rechamber and recrown it, brand new match barrel. Wasn't impressed, but my friend and gunsmith made it right and gave me back a barrel I could work with, he also is who taught me to headspace my own barrels. So buying from that company didn't result in a smooth ride for sure, but it didn't change who installed and headspaced it. Smith tells me he'd rather me do my own headspacing as I'm too much of a perfectionist and he'd have to charge me double

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

Defiance is talking about shouldered prefits not barrel nuts. The problem with the shouldered trend is people think they don't have to check anything and just torque it in and call it a day.

So there is a difference in installing from what I'm used to. Answered my question jmcmath, Thank you now I understand. Dave

 

[shortgrass]

I have only been a custom rifle owner and accuracy chaser for about 5 years. I have become good friends with a couple awesome gun smiths and people. I have talked to them about the industry and it seems some things are changing. With advancement in components such as Defiance actions, Pre-fit barrels,CNC machines, there seems to be less and less need for gunsmiths over the years. How can they be competitive with action companies offering actions with .001 guarantee headspace for $1,000, and proof research offering chambered carbon barrels with threaded ends for $875. Couple that with a self timing muzzle break and you are off to the races. I personally only trust a few gunsmiths and would never buy a pre-fit from a known barrel company. I am glad that the industry is growing, but it seems that this is going to come at a cost.

Nice try, Rhovee. But as expected, this thread has quickly morphed into another do-it-yourself thread.

 

[Don A Parsons]

There will always be a place for gun smithing since older rifles wear out and things need fixing...

At some point even the interchangible barrel rifles will need the actions and bolts reset since they might wear down over time...

Loose bolts and worn out lugs...

Of course this would be for folks that have firearms that have been in the family for many generations as they try to keep it running...

Yes that the industry is changing,,, but one would think that there will still be a spot for action and bolt work overs,,, replacments of broken stocks and helping folks get their rifles to shoot like they did when they were new...

It seems like there are more then a few pepole having issues getting their firearms to shoot to their expectation,,, I've suggested a few times that they might be 2 steps ahead of the game if they find a quality gun smith that is a friend to get their rifles,,, optics,,, and ammo sorted out that saves alot of time,,, effort,,, and funds of burning up ammo...

I've paided my way at a cost like lots of others in the firearm world,,, the best bang for my buck is letting my gun smith friend sort things out with the rifles and optics,,, my job is to work at things at the ammunition end... Ha

At least I know my rifles shoot consistent when everything falls into place...

Cheers from the North