I've made bad shots at all ranges so understand your point. I know several of the folks that buy ludicrously expensive 1/2" MOA rifles, scopes and shoot 100 yard groups and discount flyers then go make extreme range shots. The wounding videos usually don't make YouTube. If they did it would ruin hunting. I shoot a fair amount up to 850 yards on targets like dingers and rocks while video recording, with very accurate rifles. It's an eye opener. Field conditions are usually way worse to get a good setup in. I don't care what people do that do it well. There is always risk in shooting long. As Dirty Harry said "A man has to know his limitations "
Berger supporters, Vocal Minority with Something to Gain, or Legit?
- Thread starter Troutslayer2
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Because it's not me, it's my wife's cousin. I didn't ask him if he was ok with his face being on the internet so I just scribbled it out.
Troutslayer2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2010
- Messages
- 757
I've been duck hunting. I might have to take the day off tomorrow so I can wade through all of this. Hitting on some of the comments, I'm thinking of shooting the 215. Most of the failures seem to be related to the 168, which is the one I had poor performance with also. I hope some y'all be getting that sweet social media influencer money for your unwavering defense of these bullets!
Troutslayer2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2010
- Messages
- 757
It's better than debating which factory 6.5 CM is the best choice for some new member
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you got a lock on the high road-good luck with that.
From my view Berger, Sherman, and Hammer, have all invested significant time, money, physical, and mental energy, carving out a share of the market. The effort has created a loyal customer base. That's how it's supposed to work.
Substituting " guerrilla marketing" for word of mouth, and "supporter" for satisfied customer, sounds like someone didn't get their participation trophy.
Ingwe
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2011
- Messages
- 1,036
Sounds like you got a lock on the high road-good luck with that.
From my view Berger, Sherman, and Hammer, have all invested significant time, money, physical, and mental energy, carving out a share of the market. The effort has created a loyal customer base. That's how it's supposed to work.
Substituting " guerrilla marketing" for word of mouth, and "supporter" for satisfied customer, sounds like someone didn't get their participation trophy.
Its all in good fun
Troutslayer2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2010
- Messages
- 757
Sounds like you got a lock on the high road-good luck with that.
From my view Berger, Sherman, and Hammer, have all invested significant time, money, physical, and mental energy, carving out a share of the market. The effort has created a loyal customer base. That's how it's supposed to work.
Substituting " guerrilla marketing" for word of mouth, and "supporter" for satisfied customer, sounds like someone didn't get their participation trophy.
Ok boomer
gillettehunter
Well-Known Member
Don't know if I'm a Berger supporter so to speak. I'm using them right now and they seem to be doing the job pretty well. I've used and like the Accubonds as well as TTSX'S. A person has to use what they feel comfortable with. From another post I made on here as well as Africahunting.com:
I will start this with a few observations. All bullets are designed with a use in mind. There is no one size fits all in bullets. I have no problems with other bullets. I have taken Barnes TTSX's and Nosler accubonds to Africa. Both have served me well. This last trip I took Bergers. I usually get extremely good accuracy and good results with them. Bergers are often used in longer range hunting and are designed to expand reliably at lower velocities. If you plan to use them I will strongly suggest that you heed the next observations:
1) Use heavy for caliber bullets. I used 180 grainers in my 7mm SAUM. If you use a faster bigger .28 caliber cartridges then use their 195 grainers. In .30 caliber use the 215 grain hybrid. Easy to load and deadly effective on game. In a .26 caliber use the 140's or 156's. Apply the same to other calibers.
2) Always check the points. Bergers are a hollow point design. Occasionally the point will be "clogged or closed". That bullet, if not opened, will act like a solid and pencil through an animal. A small drill bit should be used to make sure they are all open. If closed then use that one for practice or drill it open.
3) Do not expect reliable expansion at over 3000 fps. You are more likely to get over expansion at higher velocities along with poor penetration. My SAUM runs the 180's at 2900 fps. That is about right. My .30 Nosler runs the 215's at 2990. Works well too. I would not run them at 3200 fps and expect reliable close range expansion.
On to the point of this post. 16 animals of assorted sizes were taken with my SAUM and the 180 gr bullet's. They are as follows:
1) Cape eland cow at 469 yards. Hit slightly further back than wanted. Down and dead quickly.
2)Cape eland bull at 511 yds. Heart shot. Dead in less than 20 yds. Pretty impressive.
3)Springbock at 175-200 yds. Broadside shot slightly back and high. Down in its tracks.
4)Duiker spotlighted at maybe 40 yds quartering to me. High shoulder down in his tracks.
5)Vaal Rhebuck at 313 yds. Hit way back top of back. Spine hit. Down in his tracks.
6) Klipspringer at 269 yds. A little far back and high. Down and done in place.
7)Blesbuck cow at 130 yds? Back a little and a little high. Down immediately with no fuss.
8) Bull Livingston eland. Huge animal. 75 yds. First hit was high shoulder. Sraggered him. Went perhaps 75 yds and He appeared to be staggering when I hit him again up high mid body which put him down.
9)Hartebeest cow at 200 yds. Quartering slightly to me. Hit mid way up behind the shoulder. Went 40-50 yds.
10)2nd Hartebeest cow. Broadside at 80-90 yds. Hit behind shoulder. Went 30 yds or so.
11)Hartebeest bull at 150-170 yds quartering to me. Low shoulder into the heart. Went maybe 60 yds.
12) Bushbuck at 200 yds or a little more. Hit a little high behind the shoulder. Went perhaps 30 yds.
Mikes animals as follows:
1)Waterbuck at 150 yds broadside. Hit behind shoulder. Went about 70 yds.
2)Puku at 80-90 yds perhaps. Quartering hard away. Hit in front of hind quarter lining up on far shoulder. Went about 40 yds.
3)Bushbuck at 120 yds. Broadside. Behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
4)Lechwe at 230 yds. Behind shoulder half way up. Down in its tracks. Kicked twice.
I will add the following NA animals for additional consideration:
A) 6.5-06 w/ 140 grain bullet. Bighorn ram at 100 yds. Broadside. Hit back too far. Got liver. Went perhaps 100 yds.
B) 180 in the SAUM. Antelope at 130 yds. A little high behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
C)180 in SAUM Whitetail doe. 75 yds facing me. Down in her tracks.
D) 180 in SAUM WT buck. 300 yds. 1 shot in leg and one mid body. Went perhaps 30 yds.
E) 215 gr in .30 Nosler. Bull moose at just over 100 yds. Quartering to me. In front of shoulder. Went less than 20 yds.
F) 6.5 SS w/ 156 gr. Whitetail buck at 20 yds. Quartering away. High behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
G) 6.5 w/ 156 gr Pronghorn buck. Broadside. Hit slightly low behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
H) 6.5 w/ 156 gr. Pronghorn doe at 325 yds. Behind shoulder a touch high. Down in her tracks.
Notice that I needed more than 1 shot on a wt buck that I screwed up on and the Livingston eland that likely didn't need it.
If your considering the 215 Berger be sure and look up Broz's thread on the 210 vs the 215 Berger here on Long Range hunting. It has a couple of hundred posts with some good info in it.
Carry on.
Bruce
I will start this with a few observations. All bullets are designed with a use in mind. There is no one size fits all in bullets. I have no problems with other bullets. I have taken Barnes TTSX's and Nosler accubonds to Africa. Both have served me well. This last trip I took Bergers. I usually get extremely good accuracy and good results with them. Bergers are often used in longer range hunting and are designed to expand reliably at lower velocities. If you plan to use them I will strongly suggest that you heed the next observations:
1) Use heavy for caliber bullets. I used 180 grainers in my 7mm SAUM. If you use a faster bigger .28 caliber cartridges then use their 195 grainers. In .30 caliber use the 215 grain hybrid. Easy to load and deadly effective on game. In a .26 caliber use the 140's or 156's. Apply the same to other calibers.
2) Always check the points. Bergers are a hollow point design. Occasionally the point will be "clogged or closed". That bullet, if not opened, will act like a solid and pencil through an animal. A small drill bit should be used to make sure they are all open. If closed then use that one for practice or drill it open.
3) Do not expect reliable expansion at over 3000 fps. You are more likely to get over expansion at higher velocities along with poor penetration. My SAUM runs the 180's at 2900 fps. That is about right. My .30 Nosler runs the 215's at 2990. Works well too. I would not run them at 3200 fps and expect reliable close range expansion.
On to the point of this post. 16 animals of assorted sizes were taken with my SAUM and the 180 gr bullet's. They are as follows:
1) Cape eland cow at 469 yards. Hit slightly further back than wanted. Down and dead quickly.
2)Cape eland bull at 511 yds. Heart shot. Dead in less than 20 yds. Pretty impressive.
3)Springbock at 175-200 yds. Broadside shot slightly back and high. Down in its tracks.
4)Duiker spotlighted at maybe 40 yds quartering to me. High shoulder down in his tracks.
5)Vaal Rhebuck at 313 yds. Hit way back top of back. Spine hit. Down in his tracks.
6) Klipspringer at 269 yds. A little far back and high. Down and done in place.
7)Blesbuck cow at 130 yds? Back a little and a little high. Down immediately with no fuss.
8) Bull Livingston eland. Huge animal. 75 yds. First hit was high shoulder. Sraggered him. Went perhaps 75 yds and He appeared to be staggering when I hit him again up high mid body which put him down.
9)Hartebeest cow at 200 yds. Quartering slightly to me. Hit mid way up behind the shoulder. Went 40-50 yds.
10)2nd Hartebeest cow. Broadside at 80-90 yds. Hit behind shoulder. Went 30 yds or so.
11)Hartebeest bull at 150-170 yds quartering to me. Low shoulder into the heart. Went maybe 60 yds.
12) Bushbuck at 200 yds or a little more. Hit a little high behind the shoulder. Went perhaps 30 yds.
Mikes animals as follows:
1)Waterbuck at 150 yds broadside. Hit behind shoulder. Went about 70 yds.
2)Puku at 80-90 yds perhaps. Quartering hard away. Hit in front of hind quarter lining up on far shoulder. Went about 40 yds.
3)Bushbuck at 120 yds. Broadside. Behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
4)Lechwe at 230 yds. Behind shoulder half way up. Down in its tracks. Kicked twice.
I will add the following NA animals for additional consideration:
A) 6.5-06 w/ 140 grain bullet. Bighorn ram at 100 yds. Broadside. Hit back too far. Got liver. Went perhaps 100 yds.
B) 180 in the SAUM. Antelope at 130 yds. A little high behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
C)180 in SAUM Whitetail doe. 75 yds facing me. Down in her tracks.
D) 180 in SAUM WT buck. 300 yds. 1 shot in leg and one mid body. Went perhaps 30 yds.
E) 215 gr in .30 Nosler. Bull moose at just over 100 yds. Quartering to me. In front of shoulder. Went less than 20 yds.
F) 6.5 SS w/ 156 gr. Whitetail buck at 20 yds. Quartering away. High behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
G) 6.5 w/ 156 gr Pronghorn buck. Broadside. Hit slightly low behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
H) 6.5 w/ 156 gr. Pronghorn doe at 325 yds. Behind shoulder a touch high. Down in her tracks.
Notice that I needed more than 1 shot on a wt buck that I screwed up on and the Livingston eland that likely didn't need it.
If your considering the 215 Berger be sure and look up Broz's thread on the 210 vs the 215 Berger here on Long Range hunting. It has a couple of hundred posts with some good info in it.
Carry on.
Bruce
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2016
- Messages
- 680
Last edited:
Stgraves260
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2009
- Messages
- 942
Well I got a 300 WM I used to shoot 180 - 195 grain Berger's. Never shot 215 from it so can't talk about it. Got a 7 Mag that I load 168 grain Berger's and never touched my 300 WM sense. Then I built a 260 Rem in 1997. I load 140 grain Berger VLDs for it. I shoot it 99% of the time. Prairie dogs to elk. I'm not going hungry. Taking a 290 # hog at 997 yards with my 260 Rem. Bullet did not exit but it did break the shoulder. Even at that distance. I've just never had a problem with Berger's. Shot the Hornady 140s in my 260 and some 105s in a 243. They both did good. Both very accurate. It's just the Berger's kill better. Just my experience. It seams that the tip on the Hornady bullets make them expand faster than the Berger's. The Berger's seams to penetrate more. Just my experience though. Just shoot what your gun likes.
Shot my bull in Alaska at 75yds with a 230gr VLD at 2975fps with my 300RUM. Worked just fine.
Well it's about dang time
