Berger supporters, Vocal Minority with Something to Gain, or Legit?
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bigngreen
Well-Known Member
If you re read it took me two years to trust the new bullets, I had over a 100 pictures, I poorly communicated them as the same time period.
There have been times in this area we've been killing elk for 5 months, from archery to shoulder seasons several ranches I'm familiar with or helped out on would see 200+ elk taken a year so it's not hard to rack some numbers up.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
My buddy shoots a 6.5x284 with 140 Berger's or a 270 Win with 165 Matrix for the majority of his hunting, he hits Alaska every two years and just in a typical year the 6.5 rolled two elk, filled his deer tags which would have been 7 and he tipped his Ak bull moose with it, really just do all situation. When we cut the bull moose his first round entered just of the center of the chest in a frontal shot, we found the bullet in the of side flank, lungs were damaged enough the bull couldn't move, the second round went just in front of the shoulder took out the spine and we found that bullet just under the hide.
Maybe it has nothing to do with the bullet at all, I personally think it way more shooter than bullet, I can put any bullet into a strong or a weak position, you give me five shots on a bull elk with a Barnes and I'll show you a failure to penetrate a shoulder, is that my issue or the bullets, for me a bullet like a Berger or Hammer just fits my hunting and I have great quick kills at a way higher percentage, I believe that has to do with a bullet and shooter matched up, I have friends who don't get along with the same exact bullet I do, the bullets are the most consistent part of that whole deal so it's more likely it's another thing that brings out the differences in what we see
BlazerBeam
Well-Known Member
What about Idaho hunting makes pass throughs and blood trails unnecessary? Just curious
PredatorSlayer
Well-Known Member
Where I hunt, it is pretty open, and there are lots of cross canyon type shots - so even if they run a couple, few hundred yards, you can see where they go down. You might have to search through a little sage brush, but I have never had a problem locating game that took a lethal shot.
I have used many bullets over the years (Berger's, Barnes, Nosler ballistic tips and accubonds, partitions and now hammer bullets). I just like trying different things. I also have two different Sherman rifles not because they are better but because it was fun to do.
I haven't killed as many animals as some on here (in the 100's). But between me, my son and some buddies that I have taken hunting and used my rifle, I have been a part of 15 elk, 8 coues deer, 6 mule deer, 3 buffalo, a lot of whitetail deer (in Texas you could kill 2 bucks and 3 does) and a lot of pigs and a crap ton of coyotes. All of these animals were BEHIND the shoulder point of aim shots and the only ones that have gotten away without me finding them are coyotes and that is because they were on the run and I made a bad shot on it.
All of the big game mentioned were all recovered within 100-150 yards of where they were shot. Oddly enough, white tail deer were the ones that ran the furtherest after the shot. And all of this was while using all of these different billets except the hammer hunters as they are new to me.
I say all of this not to brag but to ask...how does one know where they hit an animal if they didn't recover it? I hear a lot of people say.."the animal got away and I hit it right behind the shoulder, I will never use such and such bullet again!" Even if you have a spotter, they can mess up and miss call your shot. I saw a guy shoot an elk and the spotter said he hit it right behind the shoulder and dropped it. Well the elk was still moving on the ground. We got up to it and he hit the elk in the spine a little far back and that's why it dropped. He still recovered the animal but it was a bad shot that would have been thought of as a good shot had he not recovered the animal.
Do bullets sometimes not perform as they should? Yup...seen that happen too. 180 Gr Berger out of a 30-06 on a mule deer at close range. Literally blew up on the shoulder and never went through to the vitals. The deer ran off and they almost didn't find it but when they did find it, it was laying down and very much alive. How do we know all of these details? Because the animal was recovered. I think a lot (not all) of these bullet arguments where the animal got away even though it was hit right behind the shoulder into the vitals is really a bunch of made up hoopla that the hunter wants to believe besides making a bad shot and I'm taking about any bullet used. Picture of deer below.
I get that people become huge fans of bullets and rifles because that is their experience. I don't agree with them getting in and bashing others for not using them or saying that they didn't work out for them. I'm also not a huge fan of someone bashing people for using said bullet or rifle and calling them fan boys. People should just mind their own business on both sides and use what works for them.
I haven't killed as many animals as some on here (in the 100's). But between me, my son and some buddies that I have taken hunting and used my rifle, I have been a part of 15 elk, 8 coues deer, 6 mule deer, 3 buffalo, a lot of whitetail deer (in Texas you could kill 2 bucks and 3 does) and a lot of pigs and a crap ton of coyotes. All of these animals were BEHIND the shoulder point of aim shots and the only ones that have gotten away without me finding them are coyotes and that is because they were on the run and I made a bad shot on it.
All of the big game mentioned were all recovered within 100-150 yards of where they were shot. Oddly enough, white tail deer were the ones that ran the furtherest after the shot. And all of this was while using all of these different billets except the hammer hunters as they are new to me.
I say all of this not to brag but to ask...how does one know where they hit an animal if they didn't recover it? I hear a lot of people say.."the animal got away and I hit it right behind the shoulder, I will never use such and such bullet again!" Even if you have a spotter, they can mess up and miss call your shot. I saw a guy shoot an elk and the spotter said he hit it right behind the shoulder and dropped it. Well the elk was still moving on the ground. We got up to it and he hit the elk in the spine a little far back and that's why it dropped. He still recovered the animal but it was a bad shot that would have been thought of as a good shot had he not recovered the animal.
Do bullets sometimes not perform as they should? Yup...seen that happen too. 180 Gr Berger out of a 30-06 on a mule deer at close range. Literally blew up on the shoulder and never went through to the vitals. The deer ran off and they almost didn't find it but when they did find it, it was laying down and very much alive. How do we know all of these details? Because the animal was recovered. I think a lot (not all) of these bullet arguments where the animal got away even though it was hit right behind the shoulder into the vitals is really a bunch of made up hoopla that the hunter wants to believe besides making a bad shot and I'm taking about any bullet used. Picture of deer below.
I get that people become huge fans of bullets and rifles because that is their experience. I don't agree with them getting in and bashing others for not using them or saying that they didn't work out for them. I'm also not a huge fan of someone bashing people for using said bullet or rifle and calling them fan boys. People should just mind their own business on both sides and use what works for them.
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You got a 6.5 creed?
Also forgot to mention the Federal Edge TLR bullet. Buddy of mine took a bull at 598 yards with my rifle and load. Bullet performed EXCELLENT. I would most likely use those bullets exclusively but they can't get their consistency on bullet making down. The base to ogive measurements were all over the spectrum. I tried real hard to get them to shoot at 1000 yards but they were spraying all over. If you want a bullet for 600 yards
and under, I would very strongly recommend this bullet to you.
if they ever get their consistency down right, I would use this bullet forever (maybe haha)
and under, I would very strongly recommend this bullet to you.
if they ever get their consistency down right, I would use this bullet forever (maybe haha)
cjl2010
Well-Known Member
He has a 6 creed, disgusting.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
For the most part on this forum guy come here because they want to do better and care about actually doing as good of job at the technical killing part as they do the hunting part, that makes for some strong opinions when we find something that made a huge difference in one of those aspects of our hunts.
I know for my part it's very, very hard not to just go into trouble shooting mode and try to figure out what or where something went wrong, very very few guys care about what really caused an issue they really just want an excuse to complain or call people out as fan boys, I ha e seen a few guys honestly want to get to the bottom of an issue and they did and there was an issue. The clearest one I saw was a guy with a 6.5x284 and blew up 140s in deer which to me just can't happen considering how many elk and big mulies we have shot them through but of line we looked at actual recovered game and the wounds, looked at the bullets and rifle and his throat was taco'ed, he switched to the target jacket if the same bullet and bingo, same wound channels we were seeing, not really a bullet brand issue, shot placement issue but just needed a different bullet to handle what he was working with!! There is a hundred guys who just want to troll for everyone who actually care to figure out the root of an issue.
I know for my part it's very, very hard not to just go into trouble shooting mode and try to figure out what or where something went wrong, very very few guys care about what really caused an issue they really just want an excuse to complain or call people out as fan boys, I ha e seen a few guys honestly want to get to the bottom of an issue and they did and there was an issue. The clearest one I saw was a guy with a 6.5x284 and blew up 140s in deer which to me just can't happen considering how many elk and big mulies we have shot them through but of line we looked at actual recovered game and the wounds, looked at the bullets and rifle and his throat was taco'ed, he switched to the target jacket if the same bullet and bingo, same wound channels we were seeing, not really a bullet brand issue, shot placement issue but just needed a different bullet to handle what he was working with!! There is a hundred guys who just want to troll for everyone who actually care to figure out the root of an issue.
I've posted my experiences with Berger's 168 gn vld-h on the why doesn't Berger make a bonded bullet. But, this year I've shot one boar, a doe, and a spike.
the boar was at roughly 200 and shot in the shoulder. Didn't find it, and didn't find any blood.
the doe was shot a little Over 100. The bullet entered a little high behind the shoulder. The bullet split in two. The main piece poked through both lungs with minimal damage. The other piece made a 90 degree turn and blew a huge hole in her guts. She left a small blood trail.
the spike was shot at 80 yards or so. Shot him in the chest and it exited behind the shoulder. Huge exit, amazing blood trail. The pictures are from the spike.
the boar was at roughly 200 and shot in the shoulder. Didn't find it, and didn't find any blood.
the doe was shot a little Over 100. The bullet entered a little high behind the shoulder. The bullet split in two. The main piece poked through both lungs with minimal damage. The other piece made a 90 degree turn and blew a huge hole in her guts. She left a small blood trail.
the spike was shot at 80 yards or so. Shot him in the chest and it exited behind the shoulder. Huge exit, amazing blood trail. The pictures are from the spike.
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I have had good luck with Berger's and high shoulder shots on multiple white tail. 3 of the bucks I have shot didn't take a step and lights went out immediately. Had one that was shot behind the shoulder run about 50-75 yards so wasn't bad to find. That being said there was no exit and little to no blood. The Berger's can and are very lethal so I can see people's fondness for them. At the same time with no blood trails and if u hunt somewhere that has very thick vegetation then I can see where they may not be the best option. Just like different rifles/calibers etc I don't think there is a best bullet for all occasions and one needs to take everything into consideration when choosing which one they are gonna hunt with.
