Is there a way to tighten up velocity, ES, & SD?

[bpcrshooter]

I don't push past book limits.

And that is good!!! but if you look at ten different books you will get ten different answers. Just sharing what I use and what has worked for me in multiple rifles.

 

[glbhunter]

With ES of 50 I would try other primers first. If that doesn't work I would start with some of the other suggestions mentioned above starting with case capacity. Have not used Federal brass for years so I am not sure of the quality - meaning consistent case capacity. Two cases with different case capacity will give different velocities if you are not in a "true" powder node. Also, I would be careful when it comes to the inside of your case neck. I would only brush them in the cleaning process and leave them alone. They can actually be too clean and almost stick and not allow a smooth bullet release. This can often be seen in seating depth force. If bullets are harder to seat than normal they are too clean. Annealing is easy to do wrong so be careful there.

I feel that the annealing process is my week link, I have never did it. There is a lot of different info out there so what is the wrong stuff you are speak about. I would like to know just simply how to do it to give me a starting point. I don't want to spend $500 plus to get it right though but what does that leave.

 

[Engineering101]

I've done an A to B comparison with annealed versus non annealed cases. This with a known good load in a known good rifle. Starting with new brass and did the evaluation after 5 firings on one set of 5 rounds annealed and the other 5 rounds not. I was shocked at the results. The non annealed brass barely stayed on a piece of notebook paper at 200 yards while the annealed brass shot its normal 0.5 MOA. You MUST anneal to have any chance of loading good ammo. There are write-ups on the accurate shooter website as how to do it correctly. Good luck.

 

[TX Badger]

I think the title here is a little misleading, but the concept is very interesting. 6.5 guys 10 round load dev. youtube link below.



Basically, the idea is to do a very minimal (you could expand if it gave you more confidence) ladder test and just focus on the flat spot in your velocity/charge weight curve. Find the absolute middle of this node and then work on seating depth. This will give the lowest ES and a little margin for error if the charge weight varies.

 

[Deputy819]

I tried that 10 round test for a 6mm Remy that I'm still currently fighting with and never really could identify a "flat spot". The OCW test, however, showed me a node where 1 grain of powder didnt change vertical POI at 200 yards in the slightest bit even when velocity increased. For me, that test worked. Used an arbitrary COAL of .020 off the lands and was seeing 10-15's in S.D. and E.S. which is not horrible, but not THAT great. Ran the same exact test again with the ONLY change being a .010 increase in COAL and my numbers sky-rocketed into the 40's and 50's. The rifle (and Sierra bullet) didnt like that at all. When searching for good/low numbers I'll usually play with seating depth quite a bit first before switching primers, powders etc....

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

not sure if anyone has mentioned but barrel will make a difference.... some are tighter some not so much. the sensitivity the powder has to heat will affect it as well!!! I have quite a few 7mmRM that I load for from stock to custom and I load the same in all and they all shoot 1/2moa @100 the custom does a lil better. In the propellant profiles book max charge of 75gr of h1000 was a little much. I load 74gr with WW, hornady and Nosler brass all hit in the same exact place. bullets are 160gr hornady match or eld, hunting 160 nosler partition. Fed 215match primers. As others have said anneal your brass, I trim everytime!! also I took my expander ball out and polished it( heat it up til is orange, let it cool, polish, then heat it back up to orange and quench) if you remove a few thou thats ok. primer pockets all uniform and flash hole de-burred.

the propellant profiles book is a good tool I suggest everone have one!! lots of different powders and testing done with them. good luck!!

 

[WalksLikeADeer]

bpcrshooter,

I've never used the propellant profiles book but it's interesting that it lists max load for the 7mmRM with 160 gr nosler partitions at 75 gr h1000. Seems a bit hot and maybe even a little compressed? Hodgdon website lists the same load at a max charge of 66 grains(which seems light).

The Hornady manual lists 162 gr Amax/ELD-X at 68.5 max for H1000.

Personally, I use 71.0 gr H1000 for the Berger 168 VLD Hunting And have never seen any pressure signs. The Berger manual lists the 168 VLD's at 69.5 max for H1000. I should note that I seat the bullet out farther than the manual calls for...

 

[TX Badger]

bpcrshooter,

I've never used the propellant profiles book but it's interesting that it lists max load for the 7mmRM with 160 gr nosler partitions at 75 gr h1000. Seems a bit hot and maybe even a little compressed? Hodgdon website lists the same load at a max charge of 66 grains(which seems light).

The Hornady manual lists 162 gr Amax/ELD-X at 68.5 max for H1000.

Personally, I use 71.0 gr H1000 for the Berger 168 VLD Hunting And have never seen any pressure signs. The Berger manual lists the 168 VLD's at 69.5 max for H1000.

75 gr. does sound hot, but (just speculating) the partition is a pretty square bullet compared to a VLD so that may account for some of the difference there. I started to notice the primers flatten a bit at 70 gr of H1000 with the 168 hunting VLDs. Accuracy for me is at 67.5 gr and about 2950 FPS. Mild but 1/2 MOA to 700 yds.

 

[bpcrshooter]

the 75 was hot! I only shot a few. the book (propellant Profiles) is put out by Handloader Magizine, not by a powder manufacture/bullet manufacture., the book also does not tell you what bullet manufacture just weight. With 74gr I have slight primer cratering 73gr it goes away. your right the nosler isnt really the best bullet for distance but I wanted a good elk bullet im sure there are better but its what i chose to use at the time, im now moving on to nosler AB bullets. the load is slightly compressed If I pour sloooow there is little to no compression. I also seat the bullet out further that the standard 3.290. the lab rader told me bullets are moving at 3140fps avg across 4 shots. I still dont believe it even after doing it twice!! If I change bullets I drop the charge way down and work up just like I did the first time. FWIW I have a Brux 28in with a match chamber.....

Like I sad before, If you can, pick up a copy, If nothing else It makes good reading for those rough Sun mornings

 

[TX Badger]

the 75 was hot! I only shot a few. the book (propellant Profiles) is put out by Handloader Magizine, not by a powder manufacture/bullet manufacture., the book also does not tell you what bullet manufacture just weight. With 74gr I have slight primer cratering 73gr it goes away. your right the nosler isnt really the best bullet for distance but I wanted a good elk bullet im sure there are better but its what i chose to use at the time, im now moving on to nosler AB bullets. the load is slightly compressed If I pour sloooow there is little to no compression. I also seat the bullet out further that the standard 3.290. the lab rader told me bullets are moving at 3140fps avg across 4 shots. I still dont believe it even after doing it twice!! If I change bullets I drop the charge way down and work up just like I did the first time. FWIW I have a Brux 28in with a match chamber.....

Like I sad before, If you can, pick up a copy, If nothing else It makes good reading for those rough Sun mornings

I was not criticizing the choice of bullet, I was comparing a short, fat partition bullet to the sleek VLD. Flat base vs long boat tail. Just speculating that this would make a difference in case capacity. Also, variations in bearing surface length will change pressure.